April 23, 2025

Money and Muscle: Where Finance Meets NIL (name/image/likeness)

Money and Muscle: Where Finance Meets NIL (name/image/likeness)

Join Bonita Bell-Andersen and her firm partner, Dalton Forsythe, as they talk shop at the intersection of money and college sports. From the rise of NIL (name/image/likeness) to the realities of managing newfound wealth, we will explore how athletes,...

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Season 1

Join Bonita Bell-Andersen and her firm partner, Dalton Forsythe, as they talk shop at the intersection of money and college sports. From the rise of NIL (name/image/likeness) to the realities of managing newfound wealth, we will explore how athletes, families and advisors are navigating this new financial frontier.

Ask Good Questions is broadcast live Wednesdays at 6PM ET on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Ask Good Questions is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Ask Good Questions Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,

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or products mentioned on air or on our web. No

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liability explicitor implies shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio

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or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should

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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

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W FOURCY Radio.

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Welcome to to Ask Good Questions Podcasts, broadcasting live every Wednesday,

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six pm Eastern Time on W four CY Radio at

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W fourcy dot com. This week and every week, we

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will reach for a higher purpose in money and life,

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as well as a focus on health and wellness. Now,

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let's join your hosts, Vanita bell Anderson, as together we

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start with Asking Good Questions.

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Welcome to the Ask Good Questions podcast. My name is

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Benita bel Anderson, and today I have an extra special

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guest with me. Actually, I will explain that a little

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further when I invite him onto the podcast stage. So

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I'd like to welcome Dalton Forsyth. What everyone doesn't know

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is that Dalton and I are partners in the registered

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investment advisory firm that we are in together, and Dalton

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is my long term plan for the next fifty years.

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So anyway, so welcome Dalton.

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Thank you.

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So let me tell you a little bit about this boy.

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He's just a few years younger than me, and I

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was telling him that I used to come up to

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his shoulder. Well it's gotten worse because I think I've

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lost an ancient heighth and so I look like a

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pipsqueak compared to him because he's so much bigger than me.

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But he is a graduate of Utah State University with

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a bachelor's degree in finance and economics and a minor

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in real estate. He also played offensive line for the

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Utah State University football team and was named a two

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time Whiteside Scholar Athlete. He's a board member for the

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Inclusive Sports Foundation, the twenty twenty four California Nonprofit of

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the Year. He also sits on the board for the

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Blue a collective We're going to be talking about NIL today.

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It is a nonprofit collective dedicated to providing a cop

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competitive edge in the NIL space for Utah State Athletics.

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So professionally, he focuses on investment coaching as I do,

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and helps his clients understand what really drives investment results.

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He brings solutions that couple Nobel Prize winning investing principles

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with behavior management. And he currently resides in northern Utah.

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I'm in southern Utah Saint George at the moment, so

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we're on opposite ends of the state. His wife, Maddie

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and him have four children. They have three little girls

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that have him wrapped around their little fingers, and then

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they just had a little boy. He must be about three.

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Months old now yep, almost four months wow.

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So he enjoys spending time outdoors, golfing, and traveling with

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his family. So welcome, welcome. So we're going to talk

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about something that has been fascinating and I actually hear

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this brought up every once in a while. It's just

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weird and maybe it's because we're doing this today that

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my ears hear it. But what the heck is nil?

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Yeah, So I'll give you a little bit of history

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as we talked through this. So you mentioned that I

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played college football. My last year on roster was twenty sixteen,

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so I started in twenty eleven, you know, played my years.

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I also went on a mission in the middle of that.

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And one of the pretty critical pieces about playing college

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sports previously is that you were considered an amateur, which

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means you weren't getting paid. Right. There was a big

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distinction between amateur athlete and professional athletes. So you think

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college athlete NFL, right, And as an example, every year

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in fall camp, they would send in a compliance person

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and the compliance person will tell you, you know, this

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is kind of a silly example, but like, hey, let's

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say you're walking down the street, you're going to McDonald's,

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and a donor pulls over and says, hey, hop in,

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I want to give you a ride to make donald

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What are you supposed to say, Well, you're supposed to

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say no, that's an impermissible benefit. It doesn't come from

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the school, and it's kind of like receiving a benefit

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from a donor. And that's how strict it was. And

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in the past you've seen athletes get hammered pretty hard

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because they were signing footballs or basketballs or jerseys and

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selling them and whatever else it was. And you've seen

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guys like Reggie Bush, Reggie Bush lost his heisman because

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he used his own name, image, and likeness to make

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money while he was in college, right, and effectively, the

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NCAA used to say that that jeopardized your status as

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an amateur. What ended up happening over the last I

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don't know, fifteen years, let's call it is. It started

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with a guy. His name was Obannon and Obannon and

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he played basketball. I want to say for UCLA, I

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might be off on that, but he started the lawsuit

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in two thousand and nine and basically he said, Hey,

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you guys were putting out these video games. There's the

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NCAA basketball games, there's the NCAA football games, and like,

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I can see myself in your game, Like there's a

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player with my name on his back on UCLA's roster,

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and you guys are making money off of my name,

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image and likeness. Why can't die? And honestly, that was

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a great point. It's a great question. That lawsuit, I

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want to say, it took like five years and it

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got settled in twenty fourteen, and basically the ruling was

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that the NCAA was a violating antitrust law that you

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cannot bar an athlete a US citizen from using their

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own name, image of likeness to make money for themselves.

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And basically what started to fall apart was the NCAA's

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ability to say, if you're going to play inside of

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our system, you can't make money off of your image

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and likeness because it threatened dramaturism status. Right, That's what's

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started to fall apart for them. You've had other things

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come up in the last five or ten years. I

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think some of it comes from the fact that, you know,

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if you look at how much college coaches are getting paid,

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it's not in every sport but football and basketball. You know,

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you can see college coaches getting one or two or

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three or four million dollars a year contracts to come

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in and coach. But then you have these all star

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kids on their team that are either getting them into

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the college football playoffs, getting them into good bowl games,

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you know, running them deep into March madness, And at

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that point in time, those kids couldn't get compensated. So

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you started to see a huge disparity there. Right, How

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are schools and coaches making millions of dollars a year

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off of these athletes, but the athletes get nothing.

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Yeah, you started with advantage of them. What's that, Well,

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they're taking advantage of the athlete.

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Yeah, And I think if you were to ask the

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average college athlete, that's what the relationship felt like, right.

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It's like, Okay, yes we get a scholarship for school,

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Yes you get some food, whatever it is. But the

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reality is you're expected to show up in your sport

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like a job. You don't have time to go out

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and do other stuff. You don't have time to have

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a real job. And it's like, outside of going to school,

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you spend most of your time out of stadium, in

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a locker room, in a weight room, in a nutrition room,

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whatever else it is that realistically is your job. So

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there's been some other rulings that have come out. In

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twenty twenty one, there was another guy named Alston that

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basically sued the NCAAA again in one claiming that NCAA

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was violating anti trust laws once again by limiting like

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education related expenses. So now kids can get something that's

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called Alston money through the university to help them cover

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other education related expenses. And then effectively, in July of

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twenty twenty one, the NCAA adopted I think what most

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people are calling an interim policy at this point that

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allowed athletes in any of the NCAA divisions to profit

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from their name, image, and likeness. And I think the

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initial thought was that it was going to give a

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football player, or a basketball player, or a soccer player

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or whatever it is, the ability to go out and

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market themselves. And like, you know, if you could sell

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an autograph football and make some money, great, that's fine.

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If you could sell some autograph jerseys or posters or

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whatever it was and make yourself some extra money, that's great.

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And I think that was the heart of it. Like

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you can do endorsement deals, you can get paid to

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promote businesses on social media, you could actually appear in

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commercials and get compensated for it. You could run your

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own independent sports camps and get compensated for in whatever

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else it is. And really the only laws or regulations

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that you were expected to follow were the laws of

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the state you were in. The issue that that's ended

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up creating the last couple of years is the NCAA

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is like a national institution, and so the laws that

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exist here in Utah are different than the laws in California,

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are different than the laws in Texas. Are different than

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the laws in Florida, and so to a certain extent,

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even though you're all competing in the college athletics space

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where your institution is located and states your state's legislature

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has handled the NIL space actually greatly affects how a

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player can make name image and like name image or

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likeness money. And realistically it's also affecting school's ability.

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To recruit, right, And you can see that you would

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influence where those kids want to go to.

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School exactly right, Because conceptually you can understand that if

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there's someone who is thinking of going to two different schools,

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but there's one state that's exempting nil from income tax,

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like I say which state it is, and there's another

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state that's making you pay income tax on nil money,

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Well there's a six or seven or eight percent benefit.

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The numbers are the same choosing one school versus the other, Okay,

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And so states have chosen to address NIL in different ways,

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and like you said, it really changes how schools can

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you know, basically recruit or entice people to see. Okay,

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what's ended up happening in a lot of schools and

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in a lot of places is that it be came

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a really difficult process for a student athlete to go

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out and approach a brand, make themselves marketable, come to

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terms with a brand, right, because you essentially have to

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negotiate a contract, and a lot of kids don't know

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how to do that. Okay, follow up on your contracts,

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So whatever it is, you got to show up a

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certain amount of times, deliver a certain amount of digital content,

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make a certain amount of posts, whatever it is, and

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then to make sure you get paid. And then if

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you don't get paid, how are you going to go

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after them? Right? What sort of legal recourse do you have?

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And then it's just opened up a whole new workplace

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because then you're figuring out self employment income, and then

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you're figuring out how do you take deductions because you're

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technically running a business now? And what about what about school?

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What about getting educated? It's great, that seems like that's

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going on thrown away almost Yeah.

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And it's very different because if you look at ten

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years ago, where you're going to school was actually a

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much bigger part of the recruiting process, right because you know,

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let's say you're looking at Utah versus Stanford and two

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very different locations, two very different sorts of universities. Ten

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years ago, a consideration for someone who was looking way

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down the road might be, would I be better suited

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than life if I had a degree from Stanford or

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a degree from Utah. Right. The reality for student athletes

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now is you don't even know where you're realistically going

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to get a degree from. Because if you look at

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basketball as an example, there are student athletes that in

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their five years of eligibility have played at five different schools.

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Because the other thing that happened while NIL was coming

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on is that the transfer portal got wide open. It

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used to be that you could transfer one or maybe

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two times, and there was rules and those sorts of things,

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and if you transferred, you typically had to sit out

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a year. Right, And so you know, I went to

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a junior college first, and I graduated from a junior college,

223
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so I was allowed to transfer, and then I played

224
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at Utah State. Well you see kids now that transfer

225
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every year or sometimes twice a year if they feel

226
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like it.

227
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Well, yeah, yeah, it's just a whole new world.

228
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Yeah, And education is still a component in that you

229
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.000
still have to make grades to stay on a roster, right,

230
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.240
but it's not the primary focus. For a lot of

231
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these athletes. And I think when you look at the

232
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type of money some of these athletes are making, it

233
00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:47.960
would probably be beneficial in the long run to try

234
00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:51.159
and do away with the idea of amateurism. Like a

235
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lot of these kids are getting paid like professionals, and frankly,

236
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we should probably start to treat them like professionals. And

237
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I think, and I will end up talking about this

238
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a little later on, but they're getting money like professionals,

239
00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.320
but they're not getting resources like professionals. And what I

240
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.120
mean about that is, if you go to the NFL,

241
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.960
there's a Players Association, and there's financial planners that are

242
00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:18.360
part of the PA, and they have resources to assist

243
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.440
you in managing your wealth and managing your family and

244
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managing your estate. But now what you're seeing in the

245
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collegiate landscape is there's a kid that might be getting

246
00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:30.919
six or seven figure checks every year and they don't

247
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have resources. There is no Players Association.

248
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Dangerous, dangerous. I'm wondering how, you know, how are the

249
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schools must be thinking about, how are they prepared to

250
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help athletes navigate this successfully, you know, financially as well

251
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as with their education. There's got to be turning the

252
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schools upside down.

253
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Yeah, it is, so April seventh, not that long ago.

254
00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:07.799
Was the beginning, well, not the beginning, but it's when

255
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.639
they started to try and decide on a law school.

256
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:13.679
That's been in the house for some number of months,

257
00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.240
and you effectively have groups petitioning the federal government to

258
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standardize the landscape for Nio okay. And what they're considering

259
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.240
doing is a couple of different things, but one of

260
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the biggest ones is they're allowing what's called revenue sharing.

261
00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:34.559
And this is something that's never been available. And what

262
00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.759
that means is that if a school or very specifically

263
00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.960
an athletic department is generating enough revenue and they choose

264
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:45.240
to opt in that the school can actually revenue share

265
00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:50.639
with an athlete. And what that means is it brings

266
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:54.080
someone the control back into the school. They can see

267
00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.480
how much revenue is being generated, you can see how

268
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.120
much money is being paid out to athletes, right, and

269
00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.559
now you have some disclosure. The reason that's important, and

270
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.519
I'll back up a teeny bit is what's happened at

271
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:10.559
most schools, including at Utah State and most every other school,

272
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is that when the athletes tried to go out and

273
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negotiate independent contracts and manage their own name, image, and likeness.

274
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That was like an overwhelming task for the majority of

275
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:26.960
a student athletes, right, almost like money. Yeah, I mean

276
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.440
some of them. I met with a volleyball player yesterday.

277
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:36.839
She's seventeen. She's already hearing so much. Yeah. Yeah. The

278
00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:39.039
point of that, though, is what's happened at most schools

279
00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:44.599
is they've started some sort of nil collective, and depending

280
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.839
on the school you look at, the landscape is going

281
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.000
to be really different, the amount of resources they have

282
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is going to be really different. But in my mind,

283
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.559
the gist of a collective is that the collective acts

284
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as an intermediary between student athletes and business cisal, private donors.

285
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And so I'm part of our collective. Like I said,

286
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.039
most schools have a collective these days, and effectively, what

287
00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:11.359
we're doing is we're going to our athletes and we're

288
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.480
contracting to buy up their name, image and likeness. And

289
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:19.680
then some of us that have more financial or business experience,

290
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:21.960
we turn around and we go out to the public

291
00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:28.599
and we look for wealthy individuals, businesses who want partnerships advertising.

292
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.839
Those sorts of things, and we act as the intermediary.

293
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.079
So we're finding and sourcing money and deals, and we're

294
00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:38.440
taking the athletes for which we own their name imagine

295
00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:41.799
of likeness, and we're plugging them into them. Okay, And

296
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:44.960
so we've taken some of this off of the athlete's

297
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.960
plates so that they can benefit from name, image of likeness,

298
00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.720
meaning they can get compensated, but they don't have to

299
00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.640
do the majority of the heavy lifting, right, you don't

300
00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:00.759
have to start your own marketing agency from scratch. Going

301
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.519
back to what are school's doing about it? Well, our collective,

302
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:09.799
as most collectives are, they're not actually part of the university.

303
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:13.680
And I think one of the challenges for universities and

304
00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:16.480
for fan bases and for donors to schools I like,

305
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:22.000
is that some collectives are pretty transparent, but I think

306
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.240
most collectives are not in terms of how much money

307
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:28.920
is being raised, how much money is being deployed. Right,

308
00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.960
there's not really an advantage for a collective to share

309
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.200
those sorts of numbers because it's kind of like a

310
00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:36.559
tactical advantage. You don't want people to know what you're

311
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.039
doing for athletes or not doing, and some most people

312
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:43.960
kind of keep it to themselves to going back to

313
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.000
that house settlement. They're allowing schools to revenue share, and

314
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.079
I think their hope is that number one, there's a cap.

315
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:54.480
There's a concern right now that the amount of money

316
00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:59.000
that's being extended on rosters is just unsustainable or even unfair.

317
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:02.599
I'm going to test your knowledge, Bonnie. Do you know

318
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.440
who won the football championship last year in college? Do

319
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.920
you remember it was Yukon No for football? Oh?

320
00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.440
For football? I know, I know, because of marketing, I mean,

321
00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:14.880
you know.

322
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:16.079
That's okay.

323
00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:17.799
But well.

324
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:24.759
It was Ohio State. Okay, I don't remember that. That's okay.

325
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:27.799
So the Ohio State Buck guys, they won the national

326
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.160
championship last year. And it's a bit of a longer

327
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.880
road now because you have to win playoff games to

328
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:38.799
get to the national championship. It's not like before. Do

329
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.720
you care to take a guess at what Ohio State

330
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:45.880
spent on nil just to put their roster together?

331
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:51.400
Oh? I bet, well, I'm sure it's in the millions, right.

332
00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:53.200
Do you know what's the number?

333
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.720
Yeah? And it's an estimation because I think a lot

334
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.880
of this doesn't have to get disclosed still, but most

335
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.640
what I heard is that Ohio State spent between twenty

336
00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:05.880
five and twenty six million dollars on their football roster

337
00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:07.359
in a single year.

338
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.000
I Where is that money come from? That's what I

339
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:11.440
want to know.

340
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:15.319
Yeah, so the money largely comes from wealthy donors and

341
00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:20.480
business owners, right, And the NCAA doesn't like it. But

342
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.160
the system, if you look at it throughout the entirety

343
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.759
of the country, the reality is it's almost become a

344
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:30.119
pay to play system. Yeah. So you've asked questions that

345
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:33.079
a lot of people commonly ask, Right, where does school

346
00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.240
fit into this? You know, what about the education, what

347
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:39.200
about the degree whatever else? Well, the reality is, when

348
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.720
you think about you know, this is a twenty five

349
00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:45.440
or twenty six million dollar roster, school is one of

350
00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:47.160
their very last concerns.

351
00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.799
Yeah. I can see that, right.

352
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:54.000
And you can see it happening again. I mean, we're

353
00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.240
in Utah Yu made a good run, made it to

354
00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:00.680
the Sweet sixteen this year. I mean, everything I've seen

355
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:04.599
indicates that BYU might spend between fifteen and twenty million

356
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.599
dollars on their basketball team next year.

357
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:09.960
I was thinking about this as I'm watching March Madness

358
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.200
and watching these teams, and I don't know. I guess

359
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:18.839
it was like I was watching Alabama and NIL. Actually

360
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:23.119
the announcers a couple of times in just their conversation,

361
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:25.839
this comes up the whole thing.

362
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.720
Yeah. Yeah, it's a major piece of it. And you know,

363
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.680
statistic I've heard in basketball is that if you expect

364
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.599
your team to make any sort of run in the

365
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.599
Marsh Madness Tournament, that you should expect to spend between

366
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:43.279
six and eight million dollars on your roster. Yeah. That's

367
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:46.240
just how it's working these days.

368
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:50.720
So it's almost not oh, you know, it's just like

369
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:56.119
it's not it's not so much merit anymore. It's not

370
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.519
I mean, it's like the schools are buying their athletes.

371
00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:06.400
Yeah, and I think to a certain extent that's fair. Yeah.

372
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:10.359
So with all of these collectives and associations being independent

373
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.200
of the school, the house settlement that's going on right

374
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:16.920
now is attempting to standardize that and push it back

375
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:20.559
into the schools if possible, right, And I think what

376
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.720
that makes the difference is at least the institutions will

377
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:26.759
have some level of oversight and the NCAA will probably

378
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.759
maintain some level of oversight. Where right now, the reality

379
00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.519
to me is it feels like the wildwiss. People are

380
00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:37.559
doing whatever, people are saying whatever, and I think some

381
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.079
of them know, like, you know, there's going to be

382
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:43.480
something to pay someday or we're gonna have to figure

383
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:46.000
this out. But we'll cross that bridge women we get there.

384
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:51.799
So so walk me through this. I'm a high school

385
00:23:52.960 --> 00:24:00.359
football quarterback that has done really well. Yeah, what's going

386
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:02.839
to happen? I mean, and that guy is saying, yeah,

387
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.640
I'm I I want to go play football in college.

388
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:10.920
Who's going to be reaching out to him?

389
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.880
Yes, I mean, it's still I think at most schools

390
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:19.799
it kind of works in two ways. But the coaches

391
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:24.279
are still the ones evaluating talent and assessing talent. Right,

392
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:27.759
So your coaches and their staff, they're going out, they're

393
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:31.559
watching film, they're looking at huddle, they're going to games,

394
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.000
they're you know, if it's other sports, it's like they're

395
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.119
going to tournaments or AAU teams or whatever it is,

396
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.319
and they're evaluating the talent. But the question that most

397
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:46.559
college coaches have is how much money can we spend? Right?

398
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:49.559
How much money can I spend on this roster? And

399
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.319
even though a college coach can probably go out and

400
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.240
find some donors and you know, speak or do whatever

401
00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:00.440
else it is. It's effectively the collective's job or the

402
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.720
school's job, depending on the situation, to make sure they

403
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.000
have enough ANIL money to field the roster. Because, like

404
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:09.599
we talked about in the beginning, you're let's say you're

405
00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:13.039
this elite high school quarterback. Well number one, you want

406
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:16.599
to play it a good school, probably right, so you

407
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:19.599
want to go to an Ohio State or at Texas

408
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:21.400
or whatever else it is if you want to be

409
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:25.039
at a big, powerhouse school. But the second question, and

410
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:28.559
it usually doesn't even have to get brought up by

411
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.000
the coach or the NIL collective or someone else, the

412
00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:36.240
parent or the athlete is asking, what's the NIL landscape

413
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.160
at your school? What's the capacity of your NIL collective?

414
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:43.200
What sort of businesses can you introduce my children to

415
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.759
or my child to or my son to. And that's

416
00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:51.240
almost like a big piece of the recruiting process for

417
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:53.880
a lot of people. And you know, you can see

418
00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:01.519
it the basketball transfer portal window. It goes on basically

419
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:05.359
during the March Madness tournament and through the majority of April,

420
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:10.359
and you see kids in the transfer portal because they

421
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.400
were promised more money by another school, And so that's

422
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.000
why there's not a lot of brand loyalty or not

423
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.000
even a lot of concern about where do I get

424
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.160
my degree from? Because players who play at a high

425
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.039
level can go from one school to another year over year,

426
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:29.079
making two or five or ten times as much money,

427
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:33.720
and that's almost one of the only factors in getting

428
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:35.720
them to move well.

429
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:41.400
And so is there even like a football scholarship to

430
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:44.519
give you a full ride scholarship to the school because

431
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.720
the education is taking a back seat. I wonder if

432
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:50.039
you didn't care anymore.

433
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:53.160
Yeah, So, I mean, these kids are still getting scholarships,

434
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.319
and they're still getting your standard stuff, So you know,

435
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:59.960
it's the education is getting paid for. Most schools pay

436
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.440
a sipend that they're hoping will cover the cost of

437
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:07.160
a house or an apartment, you know, basically your housing

438
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.319
and then some food and your books and that sort

439
00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:11.880
of stuff. So that still does get paid for. But

440
00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.559
I think when you're talking about the elite athletes in

441
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:21.440
any sport, they're going to college. It used to be that,

442
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:25.680
like getting a scholarship was the highest form of reward. Right,

443
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:26.799
you have certain kids.

444
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.200
That had, yeah, that would used to be the big deal.

445
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:32.960
Yeah, and the full ride was the big deal. Like

446
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.599
you said, It's like, man, I made it right now,

447
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:38.680
It's like the whole route is the floor. No one

448
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.440
even wants to talk about it, right, It's just expected.

449
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.039
Everyone kind of knows generally what it's going to entail.

450
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.839
But the questions are what's the capacity for your nil

451
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.200
collected to give? And what sort of businesses or donors

452
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.400
can you put my summer daughter in front of? Wow?

453
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.839
Are the parents or the athlete coach on? I mean,

454
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.440
these are the name of this podcast is ask good questions?

455
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:08.079
How do they know? Are they just being coached on

456
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:08.960
what to ask?

457
00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:12.440
Yeah? And so this is the other one that's done

458
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.720
it interesting. Yeah, this is another one that's been tough

459
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:20.039
to navigate. And I think this is part of what

460
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:23.400
the House Settlement is also trying to address, is that

461
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:27.480
when you look at professional sports, there are laws and

462
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.839
or regulations that govern who can be an agent in

463
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.200
the professional sports world, Like you have to be an

464
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:36.680
actual attorney to be an agent in the NFL. As

465
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:41.079
they said, okay, when you talk about an IL agent's

466
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:46.079
I mean there are legitimately kids getting multimillion dollar contracts

467
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:48.960
there's kids in the state of Utah that have six

468
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.960
or seven million dollar contracts with their respective universities, okay

469
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:56.079
for a year, and so obviously those are big contracts.

470
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.960
You probably should have an agent. You probably should have

471
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.559
an attorney, probably should have an advisory probably should have

472
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.240
a good CPA, like you should have a whole team

473
00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:07.759
if you're getting that kind of money at that age.

474
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.480
But the reality is for NIL where NIL is still

475
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.599
in basically it's infancy. It's still the wild West. There

476
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.559
is no standard for who can be an NIL agent, okay.

477
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:24.160
And the reason that's made things difficult is Number one,

478
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:27.200
there's people that put themselves out as NIL agents that

479
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.240
they're taking almost predatory amounts of these kids' contracts twenty

480
00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:33.599
or twenty five, like.

481
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:36.559
Wow, there's no certification or anything.

482
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:40.599
No, and there's no standardization either, so they're taking big

483
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:44.519
chunks of these kids money. Right. Number two is there's

484
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:47.359
some agents that do a good job. They help market

485
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.440
their players, they help get them to the right school,

486
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:52.160
they help negotiate a good contract, and I think that's awesome.

487
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:55.960
But there's some other agents that, in my opinion, their

488
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.839
only value proposition is they're telling these kids get into

489
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:04.200
the transfer right threat in the school you're at, tell

490
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.279
them you need double the money or trimple the money,

491
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:09.920
or you're leaving and see how it goes. I'll probably

492
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:11.640
give you a little bit more to try and retain you.

493
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.839
So that creates a bad situation for the team and

494
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.240
for the school. It's not a fun dynamic for a

495
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:20.279
coach to have to deal with either, right.

496
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:22.559
Yeah, I'm just wondering. That makes me think about the

497
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.160
dynamics of the coach trying to build the team.

498
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.440
Yeah, and I mean that's something we can touch on too.

499
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.920
But the flip side of it is, then you have

500
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.240
some kids that do that in the school there At says,

501
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:39.839
you know, I know some schools that are adopting policies.

502
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.519
I'm pretty sure Coach Sanders of Colorado said the same

503
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:46.240
that if you test the transfer poble, you're never coming back. Right.

504
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.599
He doesn't deal in what feels to me like the

505
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:51.680
extortion game of like, well, if you don't pay me,

506
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:53.359
I'm going to transfer. His answer is.

507
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:57.880
By right there at Well, yeah, there's like a whole

508
00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.960
ethical thing going on here.

509
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:05.200
And so, like you said, it also affects the ability

510
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:08.119
for a coach to manage a team, right, because now

511
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:12.519
you have kids trying to negotiate against their own coach

512
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.799
to get more money, and that's tough. And then the

513
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.440
other thing is some of these negotiations are very public,

514
00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:23.599
and the reason that's relevant is you can end up

515
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:29.519
in situations where you've got like the comparative analysis between teammates, Right,

516
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.119
I feel like, I'm, you know, ten percent better than

517
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.480
this person and they got X amount of money, but

518
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:39.920
I'm getting why which is less than X? What's you know,

519
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:41.920
do I need to leave? Or are you going to

520
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.359
pay you more? Or what's to deal? And so that's

521
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.759
been very difficult for a lot of schools and coaches

522
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:49.519
to manage as well as it's it's really changed the

523
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:56.920
landscape of running a team as a team.

524
00:31:55.240 --> 00:32:01.119
Yeah, jeez, you know, well, what do you say to

525
00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:05.960
critics who argue that, I mean, it's we're kind of

526
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:06.960
touching on this that.

527
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:11.039
Nil could create locker room tension. I mean, that's like,

528
00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:12.039
that's what that is.

529
00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:16.079
Yep. And I think there I think there are certainly

530
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:19.559
some teams where that's a huge challenge they're having to overcome.

531
00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:22.880
And I think on the flop side of what you're

532
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:29.119
seeing is some teams are developing standardized ways to manage

533
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:31.480
that sort of stuff, you know. And I think, coming

534
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.759
out of the House of lawsuit, if it becomes legal

535
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:38.400
to just reward on the fielder on the court performance,

536
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:42.799
that would make a big difference, right, because what you're

537
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.519
really trying to contract for now is promotional value. What's

538
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:47.799
your name, image and likeness worth? And I think if

539
00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:50.240
schools had it their way, you'd really be paying kids

540
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.400
for how much production do you have on the fielder

541
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:55.119
on the court. That's that's what they would really love

542
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:58.680
to put pay for. You know. The other thing I'll

543
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:02.960
mention though, is that while we're talking about nil, there

544
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:06.720
is some percentage of the kids that are getting big

545
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:11.319
multimillion dollar contracts or you know, several hundred thousand dollars contracts,

546
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:15.839
there's some kids that nil is just they're saving grace.

547
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.599
And I'll give you an example. You know, I played

548
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:23.960
in football Utah State almost ten years ago. Now. I

549
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:28.279
don't think Utah State has changed its stipend in about

550
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:32.559
twenty years. So the stipend guys we're getting in twenty

551
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:34.480
ten is the same one I got as the same

552
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.319
one athletes are getting now. And if you had to guess,

553
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.160
I mean you're you know as well as anyone. The

554
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:42.920
cost of living has gone up substantially in the last

555
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:47.079
twenty years, especially if you're talking about housing and food.

556
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:50.960
I mean, for some of these kids, getting a fifteen

557
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:54.039
or a twenty thousand dollars nil deal is enough for

558
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:56.759
them just to make it and be comfortable. They're not

559
00:33:56.839 --> 00:34:00.119
getting rich, they're not going out and buying Lamborghini's and

560
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:04.240
change or whatever it is. It's actually really great for them, right,

561
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:08.159
And it's allowing some people that even with a full ride,

562
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:10.639
may have not been able to make it previously, to

563
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:14.039
make it and get an education and play college sports.

564
00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:16.199
So there's a lot of good in it too, is

565
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.320
what I want to make sure we don't exclude. But

566
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:23.880
there's such a wide disparity between an athlete getting a

567
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:28.559
twenty thousand dollars contract and another athlete getting a seven

568
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:29.880
million dollar contract.

569
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:35.519
So you're actually meeting with prospective athletes.

570
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:39.760
Yeah, So that's I mean, at the majority of the schools,

571
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:44.719
the coaches do they recruiting, right, So collectives means like

572
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:46.840
we don't go out to games or do any of

573
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:49.840
that sort of stuff like our nile collective is run

574
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:53.400
by volunteers. But then when these people come in and

575
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:58.880
they have questions about how does an anile collective work, how

576
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:02.239
do you guys fundraise businesses are you partner with? And

577
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:04.760
then on the flip side, like what are the expectations

578
00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:07.639
for my child? How many social media boats do they

579
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:09.920
have to make? How many public appearances do they have

580
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.280
to make? What kind of burden is that going to

581
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:14.119
put on them in terms of like if this is

582
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:17.400
their practice schedule and you're asking them to do, why

583
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.440
you know, is there enough time in the data realistically

584
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:24.719
get that stuff done. So that's probably the most common

585
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:29.960
is either meeting with a parent or an athlete. What

586
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:33.360
you're seeing a lot more of in my experience, especially

587
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:37.119
in the basketball space, women's or men's, is that these

588
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:40.760
kids have their own version of an agent, and sometimes

589
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:43.880
it is an NIL agent. And I've met with ones

590
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.280
that I thought were very competent and professional. I've met

591
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.400
with some that I thought were very incompetent and unprofessional,

592
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:55.719
And then you have some it's just like maybe they

593
00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:58.679
don't have the resources to hire an agent, and they

594
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:02.599
might not have you know, the greatest relationship with a

595
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:05.519
parent or guardian, And so I've seen somewhere it's like

596
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:09.639
an aau their basketball coach they've had since they were ten,

597
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:12.800
you know, like they're expecting their coach to try and

598
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:17.400
negotiate for them. So yeah, I mean, it's it's a

599
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:20.239
big piece of everything that goes on at a school

600
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:25.800
in both tracking talent and then retaining talent. Because the

601
00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:29.119
other reality of NIL these days is, let's say you

602
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:32.840
put together a good roster and you make a run

603
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:36.519
into the March Madness Tournament. Well, the part of March

604
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:39.639
Madness that's tough for NIL guys to watch these days

605
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:41.760
is you know, if you have a guy on your

606
00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:46.239
roster that goes to the March Madness Tournament and puts

607
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.199
up fifteen or twenty points a game, that they're going

608
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.679
to start getting phone calls. And it probably shouldn't be

609
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:53.679
that way, but they're going to start getting phone calls.

610
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:56.559
Thinking of a couple of players that I saw do

611
00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:58.000
that this time, yep.

612
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:01.400
And they're getting five or ten times as much money

613
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:04.719
to go play at a bigger school. Yeah right, and

614
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:06.880
a lot of times they go. Sometimes they don't, but

615
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:09.639
a lot of times they do. And so that makes

616
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:13.119
it really difficult as well. That you know, these kids

617
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:16.639
do well, they're probably going to get poached, So retaining

618
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:21.480
an athlete year over year theoretically becomes much much more expensive.

619
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:26.280
Right, Wow, do you see any red flags when you're

620
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:29.440
meeting with somebody for the first time? Is there anything

621
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:32.679
that I mean, like, you know, we all there's an

622
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:36.559
old saying about, you know, the first impressions. Do you

623
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.960
ever have first impressions when you're meeting with an athlete

624
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:45.760
or that or the family that you worry about? This one?

625
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:51.039
Yeah? Number one is that even though money is a

626
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:54.400
big part of this process, I think at least that

627
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:58.599
are collective and that are school in general, we're very

628
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:03.400
uninterested in people where money is the motivating factor. Yeah,

629
00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:06.480
you know, and that shows up for a couple of reasons.

630
00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:09.079
But I think number one, first and foremost is if

631
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:13.360
you can effectively buy a player, you know, if you

632
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:15.880
can pay to get them here, they can be paid

633
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:16.360
to leave.

634
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:17.639
Yeah.

635
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:21.000
That's the reality is it's tough to run a school

636
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:24.559
of our sides if you're always in the bidding work.

637
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:26.400
So that's that's probably number one.

638
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.480
Well what do you yeah, finish up that thought, and

639
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:31.039
then I'm just wondering what you think.

640
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:34.360
For the future. Okay, yeah. I think the other thing

641
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.280
is just when money is the motivating factor, you lose

642
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:40.400
some of the intangibles that you need in an athlete. Yeah,

643
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:44.000
because there's going to be times where like you're in

644
00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.920
the middle of spring practice and your coach is beating

645
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:50.039
on you so hard that the money is not going

646
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:53.880
to be enough to keep you there. You know, you

647
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:56.280
you need just those intangible if you need to grit,

648
00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:58.880
you need the hard work, you need the tenacity, you

649
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:01.320
need you still need those things as an athlete to

650
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:04.119
be able to perform on the fielder on the core.

651
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:07.920
And if money is the reason, you just tend not

652
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:13.440
to get those Yeah, right, yeah, man, I think this

653
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:14.360
is going in the future.

654
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:16.559
Do you think this is going Yeah?

655
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:19.800
I'm hoping this is going to start to level out.

656
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:22.239
I think what you're seeing in a lot of schools

657
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:27.159
is they're starting to find the reality of the support

658
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.000
and their respective community. And what I mean by that

659
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:34.880
is I actually think positioning, like physical positioning of a

660
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.519
university plays a pretty relevant part in their abilities to

661
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:41.239
sustain this going forward. Obviously, if you have a good

662
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:44.760
alumni network, you can pull donations from all over the country.

663
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:48.679
But I think a school that's in you know, some

664
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:52.880
smaller part of Montana, just by default, is not going

665
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:56.119
to have the ability to fundraise like a school that's

666
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:00.000
in Austin. Right, You're just not There's not as many people,

667
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:02.840
there's not as many businesses, there's not as much money, okay,

668
00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:06.719
And so I think these communities are starting to figure

669
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:12.599
out like, Okay, well, our soool realistically is only going

670
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:15.480
to be able to sustain a fundraising clip of like

671
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:18.920
a million dollars a year, right, because you always have

672
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:21.159
a donor that will come in and give one hundred

673
00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:23.880
thousand or two hundred thousand, But the amount of donors

674
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.559
that can do that every year is pretty low. Yeah,

675
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:31.000
And so these communities are starting to find that limit,

676
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:33.679
and I think they're starting to structure their sports programs

677
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:36.920
around that, and they're saying, Okay, well, we can't support

678
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.679
every sports program from an nil perspective, So we're going

679
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:42.519
to choose the one that we want to do the best.

680
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.960
We're just going to accept what happens to the other ones. Right.

681
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:50.199
That's number one. Number two is this revenue sharing piece

682
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.719
that's coming out of the House Settlement is going to

683
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:57.199
be really important because schools can share revenue with the athletes.

684
00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:00.519
So if you're talking about enticing or retaining athletes in

685
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.039
the future, the schools can have their hand in that.

686
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:06.519
I think it still leads a lot of question marks

687
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:11.079
because there's some schools but frankly just do not have

688
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:14.920
enough revenue or have no revenue, and they're effectively being

689
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:18.440
supported by taxpayers and running their athletic department. And so

690
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:23.360
even though the schools won't get the ability to pay nil,

691
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:25.960
it doesn't mean they will or that they'll have the

692
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:30.079
money too, because some just will not. Okay, with all

693
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.599
of that being said, I think where it's going to

694
00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:36.199
end up is that it's in some quasi shape like

695
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:41.360
the NFL or the NBA, where you have some some

696
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:44.360
form of collective bargaining. The athletes can speak for themselves,

697
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:48.840
they can negotiate their own terms. You have a better

698
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:55.960
association than the NCAA excuse me, which is standardized and

699
00:41:56.280 --> 00:42:00.079
as uniform rules across the entirety over the organizations that

700
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:03.440
have stayed by state by state. Is that's not working.

701
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:07.760
And then I think at some point they probably realistically

702
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:10.239
will have to put a hard cap on what you

703
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:13.400
can expend at these schools, because if not, we're on

704
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.519
a trajectory where it's pay to win, and there's going

705
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:19.159
to be certain schools that can do it reliably year

706
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:21.159
over year, and then there's going to be other schools

707
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:24.840
that literally do not ever have a chance to compete.

708
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:26.760
And I don't think that's what anyone wants in the

709
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:29.239
college for us. No, I wouldn't think.

710
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:33.880
So, well we are, You've got a lot to say

711
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:39.039
about this, and we are running at a time I'm thinking,

712
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.960
let's wrap it up. I want your thoughts, as you know,

713
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:48.280
because you and I have been teaching about finances and

714
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:52.280
investing and behavior. I want to see what your final

715
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:58.559
thoughts are as a financial advisor and people in this

716
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:03.719
age bracket, this kind of money and behavior managing behavior.

717
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:06.880
Yeah. You know, when I got into the industry as

718
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:09.559
a young person, I thought it was going to be

719
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:11.639
really easy to work with young people.

720
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:13.599
Because you're still a young person, still a.

721
00:43:13.559 --> 00:43:17.760
Young person, you know. When I was younger, I thought

722
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:21.000
it would be really easy to get young people to

723
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.239
work with me because you could tell them like, look,

724
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:25.800
if you just do like one hundred or two hundred

725
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:29.039
dollars a month, starting now, You're going to be in

726
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:33.239
such good shape, I know. And it's so much easier

727
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:35.880
than telling a fifty year old like you have to

728
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:39.039
put away five thousand dollars a month to retire. I

729
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:41.800
think this isn't so good to anybody. And what you're

730
00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:43.880
seeing for some of these kids we've already talked about

731
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.760
it is they're getting good money, right and even if

732
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:49.360
you're not getting the million dollar contract, you might be

733
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:53.480
getting several hundred thousand, Yeah, getting fifty or sixty thousand,

734
00:43:53.880 --> 00:44:00.159
but still yeah. Right, You imagine realistically you're askchool, well,

735
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:02.920
you have your scholarship, you have most of your food

736
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.480
paid for or covered, you get your housing paid for.

737
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.280
You know, you have some small stipend that you can

738
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:12.199
live off of. You know, if a kid could save

739
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:15.119
forty or fifty thousand dollars a year for three or

740
00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:18.400
four years, you can have this two hundred thousand dollars

741
00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:21.079
nest egg as a twenty two year old. Yeah, that

742
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.599
makes a big difference. I mean, you know that could

743
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:27.960
be several million dollars when you got to retire. Yeah. Yeah,

744
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:30.079
you wouldn't even have to do anything if you just

745
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:33.559
got to invest in had somebody help you take care

746
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:36.119
of it and made some good choices along the way.

747
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:40.440
You're set right. And I see some athletes that make

748
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:43.840
good decisions. The problem is I see some athletes that

749
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:47.239
make terrible decisions. Right. And when I talked about it

750
00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:50.880
earlier that in professional sports, you have professional level resources

751
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:53.840
for some of these younger kids. You don't. You have

752
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:56.199
an eighteen or a nineteen year old that's getting a

753
00:44:56.199 --> 00:44:59.199
six or seven figure check. They don't even know what

754
00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:01.639
self employment it is. They don't know that they need

755
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:04.320
to save some money up to pay taxes come next year.

756
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.280
They don't know that they could be tracking their own expenses.

757
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:10.880
They don't know how to manage mom and or dad

758
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:14.360
or sister whoever else who's never had money before. And

759
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:16.719
now we know we've got this pot of money in

760
00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:22.119
brother sister that we can consistently drop to our and

761
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:24.599
all of those sorts of issues. They probably don't have

762
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:27.719
the right person to help them ask the right questions.

763
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:31.599
And so I mean, every young person that's getting nil money,

764
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:36.000
I wish they would find a good advisor, a good CPA,

765
00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:38.920
make sure you're saving some money to pay your taxes,

766
00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:43.519
and think wrong term right, don't. I hate when we're

767
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:45.719
looking at Oh, I could take this fifty thousand and

768
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:49.199
buy a cool car. Yeah you could, But you can

769
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.360
also to fifty thousand dollars and prepare yourself to be

770
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:55.000
retired and have to do much much less throughout the

771
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:58.519
rest of your life, right, And so yeah, that's kind

772
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.239
of my soapbox there for most of my athletes I

773
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:01.679
talk to.

774
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:05.239
Well, I think that we do this again, maybe in

775
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.960
a year, and do an update on what's happened with Nil.

776
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:13.599
Yeah. Well, I depending on how this house settlement pans out,

777
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:16.199
I think the landscape will be drastically different. And I

778
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:19.559
also hope that in the meantime, more schools start to

779
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:23.719
give their kids professional level resources to help them with

780
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:25.880
this money that's coming into their lives.

781
00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:29.920
So Dalton on my podcast, well website, I have a

782
00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:34.480
place where it's called Bonus Downloads, and so I'm going

783
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.960
to We're going to have a like a flyer type

784
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:41.639
of thing, and so if there's anyone that's listening that

785
00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:43.280
wants to get in touch with you, I'm going to

786
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:48.519
have your contact information there for them. And so we

787
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:52.440
are out of time, and so man, it was like,

788
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:55.679
oh my goodness, I don't I think we even hardly

789
00:46:55.719 --> 00:47:00.280
even touch the touch the surface on where you could

790
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:05.119
the things you could to discuss about this, So thanks

791
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:09.119
so much for joining me today and this has just

792
00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:12.199
been a wonderful time to delve into something that I

793
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:14.679
know a lot of people are very curious about. So

794
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:17.519
thanks again for being here on Ask Good Questions.

795
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:20.039
Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks by dy Kay.

796
00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:26.920
Today's episode is over, but we did Ask Good Questions again,

797
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:30.719
didn't We don't miss out as we broadcast live every

798
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.679
Wednesday six pm Eastern Time on W four CY Radio

799
00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:39.079
at w fourcy dot com. Joined Banina Bell Anderson next

800
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:44.280
week for more conversations with experts on finances, retirement, behavioral

801
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:49.239
finance issues, health and wellness and more. Until then, remember

802
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:51.480
to ask good questions.