Trusting AI With Your Retirement? Inside the Financial Fitness Passport

0:02 Welcome to the Ask Good Questions podcast, broadcasting live every Wednesday, 6 p.m. Eastern Time on W4CY Radio at W4CY. com. This week and every week, we will reach for a higher purpose in money and life, as well as a focus on health and wellness. Now, let's join your host, Benita Bell Anderson, as together we start with Asking Good Questions. Hey, welcome to the Ask Good Questions podcast. I am your host, Bonita Bell Anderson, and we have got a phenomenal show for you today. I know this is on everybody's mind. Today, we're gonna talk about artificial intelligence or AI and how in the heck does that intersect with your money? So with that, I have a guest that is all about this type of thing. I will invite him to the podcast stage now. His name is Scott Zuckerman.

1:07 Hello. How are you today? I am good. I am good. Scott's coming at us from Long Island, right? I am joining you from Long Island. That is right. And I am way across the country in Washington State. So the wonders of technology. Absolutely. And I got to tell you, that was some intro. I love the music and everything. Oh, well, good. I actually picked the music myself. That's great. I like it. It was like snappy, right? Yeah. So Scott, I want to tell everyone a little bit about you. This topic of artificial intelligence seems to be everywhere today. And this week, You are the founder of the Financial Fitness Passport, right?

2:02 That's right. You describe it as. An AI-powered platform that gives users a clear, measurable picture of their financial health. And then there's this thing called the retirement number we're going to get into. And you have an AI coach named Penny. Snappy name there. Penny, that sounds perfect. And we're going to talk about whether or not a platform like this based on AI. Is actually safe to use. And if you've ever. Wondered, then this is going to be the place to find out a lot of questions around this technology that seems to be everywhere. He also has something called a passport score system. that ranges from zero to a hundred and it gives users an honest, actionable read on their overall financial readiness. But I know that one thing that people will be wondering about is are you hooking up to my bank account?

3:03 We'll talk about that for sure. We're going to. Talk about that. So you, you, you talk about it like privacy first design means that no bank account linking is ever required. So is there anything you'd like. To add to that? No, you did really well there. Well, when I first was introduced to Scott, I was like, I've got to have this guy on because... This is something that we're seeing. I mean, everybody knows you're seeing this in all kinds of industries everywhere. But when it comes to your money, it's like, wow. So you spent decades in the financial service. In fact, we really connected.

3:46 We both come from insurance, big insurance company backgrounds. And what was the moment when you realized that people needed something like this? Well, you know what it is, Benita, and you, I'm sure, can attest to this. The majority of the population is not engaged with a financial professional. You typically find it's the top 5% that are actually working with an advisor. And financial education is something that most people lack. It's not taught in schools. whether that be high school and even college, unless that's something that you major in.

4:31 I had to do that with my kids. I started my daughters with a checking account when they were 13. Yeah. But I was like, that was not normal. Well, and that's because you're in the business. So it gives you the ability to do that. But most people are not. And in fact, it's interesting that you... You're talking about you and your kids. Where do people learn their financial skills from? Well, it's going to be learned at home first. And someone's parents may not necessarily be financially fit themselves. So who are you really taking advice from?

5:15 So it's your family, your friends, your coworkers. That's who most people are taking financial advice from. And now what they're doing is they're turning to AI, like Chad GPT and Claude and Brock and you name it. They just go and start asking financial questions. What do you think the biggest gap is for people. And how they're managing? I mean, because I think once you become an adult, I'm seeing this with grandchildren, you realize you have to manage your money somehow. And so it seems like this is a little bit of a scary thing, but I think people are going to trust AI more than they're going to trust their parents.

6:02 So what do you think is the biggest gap? Well, the biggest gap is that you also, while you can ask AI a question, you have to know what questions to even ask the AI. Yeah, the context. Right? Like, what do you even put in there? And then the answer that you get, the answer is going to be intelligent, but does it also relate to you and your personal life? So it's almost like in our industry, we talk about the talking heads who will. Remain nameless here. And it's generic advice that is given to people. to everybody, but yet that doesn't necessarily mean that it fits a person's individual life and what their goals and objectives are and how much money they make. And do they have children?

6:59 Do they have children with special needs? I mean, the list just goes on and on and on. And that's the issue. What, you know, when you, when I'm thinking about how in the world did you get started with this? you're building an AI powered solution. How come you, you didn't just start out and just like do a spreadsheet type of program? Well, or is that old school? Yeah, that looks spreadsheets are old school. And when you say, and, and I'll tell you, I have clients that come to me in my, in my planning practice and they'll email me their Excel spreadsheet. Yes. People still do that stuff.

7:39 Engineers do it especially. Yeah. Yeah. So, You have the spreadsheet. And so we need to definitely get more complex than a spreadsheet, besides the fact that the spreadsheet is only going to really accomplish a couple of things. And that's really cash flow. And if you put some formulas in, maybe some present and future value formulas and things like that. But how does it all fit together? How does your cash flow, emergency fund, debt, insurance, investments, taxes, estate planning, how do they all link together? That's what Financial Fitness Passport does is it really gives the user a total overview of where they are and how well they're doing.

8:25 Well, let's get into this. Tell me about this retirement number. What is that? Yeah, so the retirement number is a proprietary number. algorithm that I created. And it's a number between zero and 150. And the number is going to determine how healthy of a retirement one has the potential to live. So what does that retirement look like from a success standpoint? And it's going to take into account the liquid net worth and a whole bunch of other factors to determine that.

9:07 So that's what the retirement number is. Well, so, okay. So we're going to, you know, kind of explore that a little bit more as we go along, but let's talk about penny. I, when I first saw that, I went, what a great, you know, it's so great to have that be the name. So tell me about Penny, the AI companion or coach that is there. Yeah, so Penny is exactly like you said, a person's AI. Guide, coach, educator. She fills all those, checks all those boxes.

9:49 And what's different about Penny than just going into ChatGPT or Claude and asking a question is it Penny actually gets to learn the user's behavior? Right. That's number one. Number two, besides learning the user behavior, she also knows exactly what is going. On in someone's financial life. So you've got all this stuff inputted. And so she's looking at that Exactly. Okay. So she's looking at that. And, and when, and the reason why I mentioned behavior is there's reflection points all throughout the modules. So for example, if someone feels that they're, they're choked by consumer debt, I'm never going to get out of this debt. What am I going to do? That becomes a reflection point.

10:43 Penny knows that she knows it's a and educate them on why debt is bad and guide them to getting out of that debt. So the other big thing, the other big name here is that passport score. Yes. So what would a score of, say. 40, that sounds to me like it would be bad as compared to like an 80 or an 85. Yeah. So what does it actually mean? What's it mean for someone? So the system is gamified, which also makes it fun and engaging. So the way that the score is created, it's a scale of zero to 100. And based upon the modules that have been completed within the system, determines what the passport score is.

11:39 So we have seven pillars. And each area of the financial planning framework Each component of the financial planning modules within the software have three different badges to unlock. So it starts with bronze, then it goes to silver. So you're getting little success hits. Right. And as those as those. Modules are unlocked and those badges are earned, there's also rewards that are given out that could be discounts on Amazon or whatever the case may be. So we want to keep the users engaged.

12:21 We want to make finance fun and not boring. Is there a cost for this or is it free? So there is. A free version, but the free version is what that does is it just gives someone their score, their baseline score. So someone goes on, takes 90 seconds, and within that 90 seconds, that self-assessment is going to say, okay, here's where I am. And then from there, it's a paid plan. So the paid plan, when I tell you, is less than the frivolous money that most people spend on nonsense.

13:01 So it's $ 9. 99 a month or $ 80 a year. And with that, you're going to be on your way to real financial freedom. Well, so it sounds like if you do the paid plan, you're. Going to spend some time. Yes, that's for sure. Which is okay, I mean, because this is important. But yeah, so what are the seven pillars that you're going to be dealing with when you get into this? Oh, we have cash flow, emergency fund, debt, insurance, investments, taxes, and estate planning.

13:51 So it's going to cover all aspects areas of someone's financial life. Yeah. For sure. Well, AI, you know, like I was saying, AI feels like it's everywhere. And I think it is, it's pretty much everywhere. For someone who's wary of that, what would you say to ease their mind? AI, when people think of this, the first thing that goes through most people's minds is the Terminator. Okay. And he's really scary looking too. Exactly.

14:31 And AI is not the Terminator. It's not. Penny's not the Terminator. No. And Penny's very cute too. She's, she's a really good mascot. So the AI isn't taking over your life. It's not, going into, it's not taking over your bank accounts and. Not telling you I'm going to be, I'll be back. Yeah. It's, it's not, it's really there to help us. These were very similar fears back in, let's call it 95, 1995 when the internet was really just coming about and everyone was petrified of the. Internet and what it was going to do. Right.

15:13 Right. And, and yet now here we are all, we use the internet every day and there's new websites. Yeah. You can't have this. We have this thing that. Yeah. I say, right. Who, if someone had told us 15 years ago that we were going to spend 150 bucks a month on a device that we can't. Live without, you'd think that we were crazy. So joking around about the Terminator and everything, but what does it mean when you say privacy first? What does that actually mean in practice? So privacy first, the way that Financial Fitness Passport was designed was so a user does not have to enter their bank accounts to get results.

16:02 That's number one. Number two, we never collect personal identifiable information. We don't ask for dates of birth. We don't ask for social security numbers. Just basic data is needed in order to get results from the system. So it is a privacy-first system. That being said, we've had a lot of inquiries about actually having bank linking. So the way it's designed and the way that it's out right now as of September 2nd, There's no bank linking. However, we do have it in beta right now. So within the next 30 days.

16:45 So if they want to, they can. Exactly. Because there's a lot of programs where you can. And sometimes it's annoying whenever I have, you know, it's like, oh, you need to relink. Yeah, you do not need to link bank accounts to get tremendous value out of the software. We're going to make it easier. And for those who don't want to spend the time to do all the data input, because like you said, this is time consuming, but like anything else, this is not a get rich quick, uh, fix everything overnight. That stuff doesn't exist.

17:27 So this is for someone to take their time, go through it piece by piece by piece and consistently use it throughout their life because in there is our goals module, which is going to allow a user to plan for things. And you can plan for things your entire life. And so the system's going to help you reach your financial goals. Let's step back just a little bit. What are the real risks that people should be aware of when they're using AI with something as personal as their finances? You know, so we're talking about this program, but what were the things that you had in mind when you were designing this to, you know, to make sure that this was going to be okay for people and people would feel good about it?

18:24 Well, we have disclosures everywhere and notifications as it relates to data upload, because we do want to encourage users to. To, use the upload feature. And what that is, is the ability to upload insurance declaration pages or insurance policies themselves, investment statements, tax returns, legal documents for your will, living will, healthcare proxy. Trusts, things along those lines. We encourage that because the more data that Penny has, the more analysis she could do, the more education she could provide, and the better guidance she gives. Now, what happens, however, is the way that the software is written on the backend, when a user uploads any of these documents, they are uploaded and encrypted.

19:22 The data is scrubbed. Once the data is scrubbed, The documents are completely deleted off the servers. So there is no retention as it relates to the documents themselves. So that's how we get all around that. If someone were to upload, let's say their tax return has their social security number, that is going to be completely redacted. It does not get posted anywhere, put anywhere. And again, those documents are deleted. So there's zero retention as it relates to any personal data.

20:02 Are you training people when they're using this software? Are you training them to say like, we're never going to call you and say, Oh, we need your social security number again. We don't have, we don't communicate directly with the users because we want the users to be able to use the platform on their own and not feel like I don't have access to anybody's data from that standpoint. Right. So I, we don't want to really have that type of interaction with, we want the system to be self-sustaining for each individual. I do caution.

20:45 Everyone that you should never just give out your social security number, dates, anything that identifies you. We certainly will never ask for it. We don't ask for it on during the onboarding process. We do not have a phone number for someone to reach out to call. Like we're not doing outbound calls or anything along those lines. And Penny knows how the system works. So you can ask her any question and she's going to teach you how to use the system. Plus we're in the process of doing a ton. Of videos so that people will know exactly how to use them. We'll be demoing each piece.

21:27 Well, like the next thing that I think the people are going to be saying, I mean, like, you know, here you and I are both financial advisors have been advisors. For a gazillion years. Is this going to replace? I feeling know that there's no replacement for being able to talk to somebody one-on-one, but what do you think? A tool like this, where does it stop and where does the human advisor step in? Well, let's put it this way. As mentioned in the very beginning of the podcast today, Advisors are working typically with the top 5% of the population.

22:13 So as it relates to this system replacing advisors, there's always going to be people out there who want to have human interaction. There's always going to be a need for an advisor to sit with their client and review things. There may be some people that say that don't care about that human interaction and that's okay because an advisor would never have gotten that client to begin with. So I don't think a system like this is going to replace any financial professional. In fact, I think if anything, it helps us. And it helps us because if I have a prospect that I know is coming to me, if I can get them on financial fitness passport first to get some, to get some basic education and then share their passport with me, it helps build the relationship stronger and faster because I now have an educated client coming into meetings and planning and I know what I'm getting into as it relates to what they have, the decisions that they've already made, what those reflection points are. So I can really guide the conversation specific to that particular person or family.

23:35 So I think if anything, it's a help. It definitely does not replace. What do you think then? So it sounds like this is, hopefully this should just be another tool where you're trying to really interact with the client. But do you. Think there's a fair criticism of AI tools like this that people. Should take seriously? Is there a criticism that you've heard about AI tools like this? This is America. And since social media, everyone criticizes everyone and everything. Yeah.

24:17 So I don't really listen to any of the criticism. To me, it's all noise. And it's probably generic. For sure. There are people, I see so many things just on, let's say, Chad GPT alone. You'll see them run ads on social media and there are people that'll give the angry emoji, the thumbs down emoji. They just don't like AI. They'll never embrace it. And you know what I say to those people, you're just going to get left behind. Um, it's, it's, it would be like someone saying back in the day, I will never have a cell phone.

24:58 Well, guess what? Yeah. 95% of the population doesn't even have a phone in their home anymore. No, I got rid of my landline years ago. Exactly. So it's only a matter of time. So you can fight it as much as you want. It's not going anywhere and it's just going to get louder and louder. So all. I have to say is these tools are out there to help make you better and If find the ones that are going to help and embrace it and use it like anything, you can also use AI to do bad things.

25:40 We could say the same thing about the Internet again. Right. Bad websites. And so there's always going to be that. And if you do your due diligence and you sort through the noise and and really find the tools that can help you. They're going to be life changing. They really will. What, you know, what I'm thinking, I'm thinking back, you know, we've talked a little bit about our history, you know, all the time that we've had in this industry. I'm thinking of things. Like e-money and there's other, there's different budgeting and finance apps that have been around for a long time. How is this different from those apps that have been around for a long time where you just basically input your information?

26:30 Yeah, look, for me, I know my competition. I don't even really think it's competition. I'll mention a few of them. You have Monarch, you have YNAB, you have Origin. You have empower. I mean, these rocket money, these are just a few of them. And if you go on financial fitness passport, we actually run side-by-side comparisons between. What they do and what we do. They, most of them are going to handle just a small sliver of your financial life. And ultimately what happens there is you may fix one thing, but then there's so many other things that are wrong.

27:13 You also are not getting the. Coordination as you get with those tools as you do with FFP because we're putting it all together versus just looking at one slice of the pie. So that's why I say we really don't have much competition. competition from a branding perspective for sure. Cause people don't know who we are. And I'm going to say this yet. Um, but, um, I think. Once people do discover us, they'll see that what the, the differences and the fact that you could take all those other apps and. Just ditch them because you'll only need one. Um, that's the first thing as it relates to industry tools.

27:54 Like e-money advisor, money guide, pro right. Capital, these are financial planning tools that are provided to advisors to offer to their clients. The retail person cannot get access to these tools to use them for planning purposes. So what separates us from them is we're going directly to the end user and saying, here is a tool that can help you plan every aspect of your financial life. So that's why from the advisor standpoint, rather than being advisor focused, we're client focused first or customer focused first.

28:37 Well, do you think there's a steep learning curve? I know there's some people, I mean, like the older generation, who's the one typically that has the most available, you know, financial investments and, They're also going to be the least tech savvy. You don't need to be tech savvy. Okay. So whatever the age, you'd say the learning curve is manageable? Oh, for sure. And everything has instructions. And the best part is Penny's there to help you. So if there's something that someone doesn't know, how do I do this? How do I do that? All you have to do is ask Penny.

29:18 She'll tell you. You should have. Named her Money Penny. I know. I don't know that just James Bond just came to mind, you know, and Moneypenny. Oh, my. Well, what do you think? You know, is this platform better for someone who's just starting to think about retirement or is there way down the road? Who's it best for? Anyone can touch this platform and get something out of it. Whether you are 18 years old and getting your first, uh, job, whether it be right out of high school or part-time, uh, while you're in school, uh, good for you to start learning.

30:02 Or you're a pre-retiree and need to figure out what type of retirement you want to live. And if you have everything in order and everything in between. So there's really not a single person who can't touch it and gain value. You know, I want to make a comment about the younger crowd. Over time, I had clients' children come to me. And I've got one family where they're twins. And if they are listening to this, they'll know who I'm talking about. But the twins started saving when they were like 15, I think. And I've got a few clients like that where they're in their early 20s and they're like way ahead.

30:54 I mean, what do you see? I mean, it feels like The sooner you get started on having clarity, the better. What would you say about that? I agree with that 100%. My son just turned 18 in June. I set him up with a Roth IRA, and I think his Roth IRA is open now, I don't know, maybe just under a year. He already has like $ 2, 500 in there. It's amazing. And the younger you start, the more financially free you're going to be.

31:37 Does Penny tell you like a particular amount that you should have saved before you retire? She cannot give advice. She can give education and guidance. There's a difference. Yeah. So what she can do is, is utilizing our retirement number calculations, she can have intelligent conversations back and forth, especially once that score is generated from zero to 150 to figure out, am I.

32:17 Going to be able to live a comfortable retirement? And there's enough education and guidance and data that you have a real good. Idea Are you going to is there going to be like inputting a budget? What's your what's your monthly expenses are? I would think that that would be part of it. Well, the cash flow is the very first place you start. And one thing I don't do is have the word budgeting anywhere. I don't believe in budgeting. I talk about budgeting with my clients. No one wants to live on a budget. No budget equals restrictions. So what we want to do is educate on the importance of cash flow so that people run their own financial lives like a business. So we have what are the income, what are the expenses, and what are we net? And then with that net, what do we actually do with it to be productive? So it's all about cash flow to start. And then every other module links back into cash flow because that's what controls our life.

33:26 Wow. Well, do you think there's a, I'm thinking now of people that are, you know, around 60 that are, I'm thinking of some people. I remember one gentleman that came into my office at 60 years old and he looked like a deer in the headlights because he. Really had never done anything. And he was realizing that he should have. Do you think there's a common blind spot for people that are thinking about retiring that, you know, when it comes to their financial readiness, is this program going to be able to help coaching around what's reasonable to think about?

34:09 It will because part of that cashflow, what will be determined is what the person's current lifestyle is. Now with that current lifestyle, we all want, at least we hope we're going to be able to maintain that lifestyle in retirement. If not, increase that, enjoy the fruits of our labor. So that's what the exploration within the retirement number and how all the modules integrate together will provide that, that level of security, peace of mind, because you're able to see it visually.

34:52 Yes. I've, and I think I told you this, I've, I taught social security workshops in like community colleges and libraries. For years and years and years. And is this integrating social security? Because that's going to be another source of income for people. Yeah. So not only does it take into account social security, but we actually have in our AI tools, we have a social security calculator. So with that social security calculator, it'll ask a series of questions. And then based upon the answers of those questions, it will actually run side-by-side comparisons of all the different ways to take social security so that the user can make an educated decision on the best time to take it.

35:43 Yeah, see, again, I've dealt with all these different tools over the years that I would use. But really, in the end, it was always me talking to the client about what they wanted and what the different scenarios would be best for them. So how do you see this complementing a financial advisor relationship? Well, I'll tell you what I do. There is a sharing area within the profile where someone can share their financial fitness passport with anyone they choose or multiple people. So you can share it with your financial advisor, your CPA, your.

36:31 Family member. So having everything in one place, especially once the integration comes out is helpful and God forbid situation, something happens to someone. So It's great for that as well. So as a financial advisor, I can log in to my advisor portal and I can just pull my dropdown and see a list of all of my clients who decided that they were going to share their passport with me. And then that gives me the ability to impersonate them. So now I can see what they look at on the screen so I can help guide them accordingly.

37:11 And now that's where the human touch comes in. And now I'm giving the advice based on how they have done in the system, completing the various modules. And if you extrapolate this as you keep on going, and what if somebody dies prematurely or. If they're retired and they. Just have a, you know, natural lifespan, natural death, what happens when somebody actually passes away and they have all, they've been doing all of this in this system?

37:52 Well, we encourage, that's why the sharing is there. The sharing is there specifically for that reason. Um, I know you're, you're, uh, in practice for many, many years, Benita. And how many times have we seen where people pass away? They have no will, they have no documents, family members. I would try to make sure they didn't do that. Right. But no, in other words, someone will come to you, right? Like they're coming to you because this happened and they have no clue where things are. I've gotten clients from estate planning attorneys or even other clients where someone passed away and the family has no clue where anything is.

38:38 Yeah. And this system also helps solve that problem. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's so important. There's one thing that I'm thinking, you know, as do you know, time always goes incredibly fast and we are coming up on having to wrap this up. Wow. Yeah, I know. I know. It's like the time goes by so fast. So if someone's listening and wants to try this today, what's the very first step that they would take? They're just going to go to financialfitnesspassport.com and just click to get your passport score. And in 90 seconds, you'll go through that self-assessment and see where you are and.

39:27 Then you take it from there. So I encourage everyone out there because there is, unless you think you are. Doing everything perfect, which more than likely. More than likely. You're not, right? So it's worth the $ 80 a year. Even if, If you do think you're doing everything right, isn't it worth $ 80 to know that you're doing it right? Right. Don't you want to have that backup? Like, okay, yeah, I really am good. I'm thinking of fee-based planners or fee-only planners who would charge.

40:10 $ 2, 500. For a plan, a nice big leather book binder with all. This stuff in it. And unless you're really savvy, it's like a bunch of gobbledygook. Exactly. The client's eyes glaze over besides the fact the minute they walk out the door, the plan. Is obsolete because it's all static data. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So is there a myth that as we start thinking about wrapping up, is there a myth around AI and money that you'd like to bust today? What's what, what is the biggest thing that you want to put to bed and say, no, this is, this is a new day.

40:53 Yeah. The biggest thing is that AI is going to take, is going to replace the role of a human financial advisor. And I just don't see that happening. Um, I can, I definitely see tools like mine. Um, and of course, as technology gets better and as, uh. The software will always evolve. It's always going to get better. So tools like mine are certainly going to put a little. Bit of a ripple, so to speak. But I think it's for the good, not for the bad, because it just helps that people are going to come into financial advisors' offices and they're going to be better educated and than they ever have been.

41:46 And I think that's a blessing. I, I want people to be educated. Now, when I build a financial plan from start to finish, I'm 60 to 90 days. It would be amazing. I would love to do a plan in 30 days because I knew the clients were coming to be educated in all these areas. And then we can sit and we can refine and, and implement and stuff like that, because there's no implementation, right? You're going to get the guidance. You're going to get the education, but then the user has to go and implement. Well, now you bring in the human element of an advisor. That's going to help give you a kick in the butt, you know, and you take action.

42:31 One of the, one of the biggest things that I've seen in the past is like, like the estate planning piece is, And doing some kind of will, but then never signing it. Right. Totally. Because no one's there to kick them in the butt. Exactly. Yeah. So our time is over for this episode. So. I mean, not good that it's over, but you know. I know, but it goes so fast. So where are people? Tell me again where people are going to be able to find you. People can find me. Or find Penny. Penny, financialfitnesspassport.com.

43:11 You can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, any social you can find me. And I'm always happy to help. And I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today, Benita. And hopefully our paths will cross again in the future. I love speaking to colleagues who share the same vision. So thank you so much. Well, anything to get people down the road to some clarity around their money is kind of in my feeling. Great. Thank you. Absolutely. So, Scott, thank you so much for joining us today.

43:53 This was very enlightening. And thank you to all of our listeners for joining us on the Ask Good Questions podcast. We will see you next time. Today's episode is over, but we did ask good questions again, didn't we? Don't miss out as we broadcast live every Wednesday, 6 p.m. Eastern Time on W4CY Radio at W4CY. com. Join Benita Bell Anderson next week for more conversations with experts on finances, retirement, behavioral finance issues, health and wellness, and more. Until then, remember to ask good questions.