Feb. 11, 2026

Tame Your Money Monster: How Your “Sacred Wounds” Secretly Run Your Financial Life (and How to Take

Tame Your Money Monster: How Your “Sacred Wounds” Secretly Run Your Financial Life (and How to Take
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Season 2

What if the real reason you overspend, avoid your bank account, or stay stuck isn’t about discipline—but about old wounds? Doug Lynam (Marine → Benedictine monk → money manager) unpacks how “Sacred Wounds” quietly drive our money choices and why willpower-based budgeting so often fails. You’ll learn how the Enneagram reveals your predictable financial blind spots—and what to do instead. Expect practical takeaways, surprising self-awareness, and a path to real change.

Ask Good Questions is broadcast live Wednesdays at 6PM ET on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Ask Good Questions is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,

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or products mentioned on air or on our web. No

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liability explicitor implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio

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or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should

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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

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W FOURCY Radio.

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Welcome to the Ask Good Questions Podcasts, broadcasting live every Wednesday,

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six pm Eastern Time on W four CY Radio at

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W four cy dot com. This week and every week,

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we will reach for a higher purpose in money and life,

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as well as a focus on health and wellness. Now,

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let's join your hosts, Banita Bell Anderson as together we

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start with Asking Good Questions.

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Hey, welcome to the Ask Good Questions podcast. I am

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so glad that you're here today, and man, have we

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got a guest that is going to turn you upside

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down when you think you know, when you're thinking of

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money and monks, believe it or not. So with that,

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I want to get going because we've got a lot

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to cover. I'd like to invite Doug Lineum to the

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podcast stage. Welcome Doug.

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Thanks great to be here.

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Well, let me tell you a little bit about Doug.

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This is kind of a really interesting thing. He his

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career path has been wilder than what he calls a

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roller coaster designed by Salvadar Dolly on a sugar high

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from the Marine Officer candidate school. I want to know

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somewhere in here, I want to know why you left

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that to twenty years as a beddedicting monk before urging

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from Monaska life to become a financial advisor and a

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business coach and a keynote speaker and a best selling author.

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He's got two books, from Month to Money Manager and

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Taming Your Money Monster nine Pass to Money Mastery. I'm

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getting a lot of m's in there, Doug. Now, this

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is with the Enneagram, which he's going to talk about

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revolutionizing how we understand our relationship with money. This is

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in my twenty five years in the financial advising world.

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Behavior has been one of the biggest things that I've seen.

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He's also got a popular ten X talk that has

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had over four hundred thousand views. His insights have been

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featured on CNBC, in the New York Times, and he's

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now a financial advisor with the Innovative Advisory Group. And

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his unconventional journey earned him a private audience with Pope

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Francis in twenty twenty two and established him as a

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leading on the intersection of wealth and meaning and purpose.

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So anything to add to that done.

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Oh, it's a pretty good start. I think we just

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get going with that.

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Yeah, I would say, so, well, you've lived like three lives,

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marine and the monk and the money manager. What's the

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through line? What is it that's connecting all of those

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three things?

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Oh? Wow, I guess the through line is I guess

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a life of service, you know, trying to find different

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ways to live a life of meaning and purpose and

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trying to find ways to Yeah, I think those deeper

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philosophical questions of you know, why am I here? And

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what's it all about? It's being curiosity is probably a

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through line, and then adventure is another through line, and

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then just always looking for that way of using my

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talents to serve others.

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So let's begin with the whole thing. What you were

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on your way to becoming you were in the Marine

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office or training school. So what happened there?

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Oh, it was great. I had a blast.

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You know.

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I graduated, taught my class, and was thinking about making

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a career on the Marines.

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Uh.

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I finished my training and then to be an officer,

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you need to have your training completed, and you also

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need to have your college degree. And I saw the

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year college left, so I sent you back to school.

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So I kind of a year pause to sort of

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sit and think about this a little bit about what

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I really wanted to do with my life. And I

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kind of realized that unresolved anger issues and high explosives

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were probably a bad combination. So I didn't need to

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go blowing people up around the world because of my

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unresolved emotional issues. And you know, I left the Marines

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because I thought, well, if I'm going to leave this life,

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what would be a higher calling? What would give me

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the structure, the discipline, the spree of core, the camaraderie,

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and maybe a higher sense of purpose. And that's when I,

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of course, any self respecting person would do is go

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off and join them on.

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It was.

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A great way to flabber. Ask my parents. They were really,

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really a great way to rebel against how I was

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raised and annoying them immensely, which I did a good

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job of doing over the years. Much I'm sorry, Mom

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and Dad, But anyway, so that's kind of how I

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got got into the monastic life and was really looking

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to escape the world of money and materialism forever. But

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obviously things took a bit of a turn.

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Well you were there for twenty years, yeah, twenty years? Yeah, yeah,

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so wow. Well when people here from month to money manager,

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that seems like a contradiction.

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Right, Well, I guess what I learned. I guess what

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I learned the monastery is that money and spirituality aren't

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aren't separate. You don't need to divorce yourself from the two.

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And then in fact, when you when you reject money

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for the wrong reasons, it can be as unhealthy as

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being greedy, greedy and averishous for the wrong reasons as well.

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So they just have two sides of the same coin.

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And that you know, we have a lot of biblical

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admonitions against greed and wealth, which are which are understandable.

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But when you're a little more deeply about it and

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you understand maybe even the historical context in which some

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of those those statements were made, then you kind of

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has a little more nuanced to it and realize that actually,

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when you when you reject money completely out of hand,

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then you disempower yourself and you and you, you're giving

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up one of the best tools we have for love

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in our world. And so you can't you know, because

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a couple of years after I got to the monastery,

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what really kind of turned things around for me is

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our community went bankrupt. And so after the monaster and bankrupt,

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somebody had to sort that mess out. And I was

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the most junior monk at the time, so I kind

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of naively raised my hand to take on that project.

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And you know, I couldn't do a worse job than

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my predecessor, So the bar was set pretty low, even

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though I was financially illiterate at the time and really

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didn't know what I was doing. But I got in

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there and figured out and realized I had some skills

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to be of service. So that's kind of how I

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started off into my financial journey.

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Well, it was just kind of like the universe put

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you where you needed to be.

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Yeah, and yeah, so you can't you can't feed the

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hunger your clothes naked or healed the sick without some

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money in your pocket. And that's what I realized in

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the monastery is that, you know, we were all smart,

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well meaning, well intentioned people with good hearts, but we

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had these what I call money monsters, these these negative

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attitudes around money that really disempowered us and put us

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in a deep financial hole and prevented us from being

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able to really be of that tool for love and

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service that we were called to be. There were so

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many people we wanted to help, so many the things

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we wanted to do, but we just couldn't because of

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the financial constraints. That just felt like you're shackled and

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handcuffed because you just you can't do anything in a

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modern economy without without money in your pocket.

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Right, And what the scriptures actually say, it's the love

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of money. It's not behavior, it's a behavior. Is that

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that is the problem.

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Well, yes, and if so, I actually have a whole

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chapter on that in my first book, From Monk to

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Money Manager. And when you dig into the Greek it

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turns out in ancient Greek there's five different words for love,

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and so what we're talking about the love of money,

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there is a very avaricious kind of love. And so

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what without without boring your your your audience with a

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linguistic lesson, I'll just say there's higher forms of love,

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what what we would call in Christianity agape love, And

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how do we bring that higher form of love into

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our money? Because maybe it as a philosophical thought experiment,

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regardless of your faith tradition, like whatever your set, whatever

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you whatever, you know your sense of the divine is like, well,

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if I can use the God language for a moment,

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where is God?

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Not?

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Where where is and and so how can God not

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be in our financial life and and be in other

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parts of our life? It doesn't make any sense that

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we arbitrarily divorce those two. So it's really about bringing

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a higher form of love, not because only one word

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for it in English and it doesn't translate well. And

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so it isn't just the love of money. It's that greedy,

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avaricious kind of the ebbets are scrooge mentality towards money

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that wolf of walts exactly.

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So what do you think is the most common money

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struggle that you see that isn't actually doesn't have anything

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to do with math or budgeting.

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Well, that's a deep question that goes back to the enneagram,

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which we can get into. But Okay, the simple answer

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is there isn't a simple answer. It isn't like there's

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one thing that we all universally struggle with. It really

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depends on our personality type, and our personality structure determines

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how we kind of view all of reality, but then

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also determines how we have a how we relate to

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money and healthy and unhealthy ways.

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Well, I you know, as I you know, I've been

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reading your book and thinking about this. I went through

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this terrible divorce about twenty five years ago, and I

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did a really good job of self sabotaging myself financially,

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and now I can look back at it and I

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can just see all kinds of you know, that was

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all wrapped up in emotions and my psychological state of

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mind and everything. It was really interesting. So with that,

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I'm thinking, let's get into you. You're talking about sacred wounds.

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So if you could define what's a sacred wound, how

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do they form and why do they show up in

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our finals?

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Did you have a sense of your enneagram type by

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chance from what you've looked at the book, or.

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I knew you were going to ask me that I

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didn't know. I didn't do it yet, I'm going to.

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But we can dig into you a little bit, maybe

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do a little armchair diet coaching and figure out your monsters,

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and that might teach your audience a little bit about

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how the system works. So your question of the sacred wound,

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so the way it works, and so what I've really

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tried to do. So the enneagram for the audience's members

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who aren't familiar with it any In Greek means nine

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and Graham means drawn, So anagram is a big fancy

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word for nine things drawn together and what they represented.

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The nine sort of archetypal personality structure ego defenses that

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we can have. So if you think of a color wheel,

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if you take a circle, and you do have a

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giant color wheel, you can basically divvied up into nine quadrants,

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and then our personality sort of fall on a range

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somewhere in each of those quadrants. And so the way

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it works is your personality has a lot of parts

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to it, and the anagram doesn't explain everything about who

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you are because you have a nature component your DNA.

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But then you have a nurture component, and so the

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enneagram helps explain the nurture part of your personality, how

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your childhood environment shaped your ego defenses that allowed you

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to survive the biggest threats and the biggest challenges that

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you face in that childhood environment. So it's a little complicated.

227
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I'll try to get too technical with it, but essentially,

228
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think of it like this. When you're born, you know,

229
00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:20.440
there's a physical umbilical cord that gets cut with a

230
00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:23.399
sharp knife, right, and then you're physically separated, but we

231
00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:28.720
form what I call an egoic a psychological umbilical cord

232
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that forms between us and our caregivers, and that egoic

233
00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:36.000
codependence allows your parents to do most of the driving

234
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.039
of your ego in the formative years of your life

235
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because you're not really sure what this reality thing is yet.

236
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And then you enter into what we call the individuation

237
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and differentiation stage and childhood where you begin to separate

238
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from your parents, and that psychological umbilical cord has to

239
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be cut, and unfortunately it help just like the physical

240
00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:57.320
umbilical cord, it has to be cut with sharp negative emotions,

241
00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:01.639
because positive emotions would reinforce that connection. Back to your caregivers,

242
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and it's typically gets cut through the way boundaries are

243
00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.559
set around us and our child. That the way we

244
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receive the nose, you know, don't touch the hot stove,

245
00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:12.840
don't kick the dog, don't bite your sister. You know,

246
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there's some boundaries saying that has to happen. And that's

247
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the basis of what I call your sacred wound. And

248
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so those boundaries are often set through negative have to

249
00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:24.759
be set through negative emotions. And we know from the

250
00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:27.919
work of an affect of neuroscientists by the name of

251
00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:31.720
a Yak panks Up, and what he discovered, you know,

252
00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.159
many years ago, is that in all mammals there's three

253
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.480
core negative emotions and it runs off the limbic system

254
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.039
of the brain and the brain stem, and so all

255
00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:44.919
mammals are running off of the All the negative emotions

256
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.240
are off of these we call them the b I

257
00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:48.879
call them the big three negative emotions. That's going to

258
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:53.279
be anger, grief slash shame, so grief for shame, and

259
00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.039
then the third one is going to be fear, So

260
00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:58.559
anger grief and shame or anger, grief and fear. Are

261
00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:02.200
those three, those big three negative emotions that we encounter

262
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.879
throughout life and in childhood that do the cutting of

263
00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:08.000
that psychological umbilical cord. So if you're going back that

264
00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:10.799
the color wheel metaphor, if you think of a circle

265
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.320
and you divide up into three big chunks, you've got

266
00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.399
the anger quadrant, You've got the grief, and then you've

267
00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.919
got the fear quadrant. And then we can divvy those

268
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:25.840
three sections up three more times because when we experience

269
00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.720
those negative emotions, we can process them in one of

270
00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:32.879
three ways. We can internalize that pain, which is kind

271
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:37.360
of like giving yourself an emotional wedgie. You can externalize

272
00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:39.240
that pain, which is like having a food fight with

273
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.919
the world, or you can have both at the same time.

274
00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:45.720
So there's three core negative emotions, three ways to process

275
00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:48.360
them or deal with them, and that's what gives us

276
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.399
these nine archetypes of personality in the enneagram. So that

277
00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:54.440
is your sacred wound, is how that psychological mbilical cord

278
00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.120
for you got cut. And then the punchline. Why that's

279
00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:00.639
all Why do we care about all that? Is basically

280
00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:04.279
because from that wounding that's happening in a pre conscious stage,

281
00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:09.799
it creates your greatest unconscious fear. This is the fear whatever,

282
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whatever fear that that wounding creates is then kind of

283
00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.159
come of the chassis of your ego. If you think

284
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.480
of like your car you're driving in, it's the it's

285
00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.159
the shape of that chassis that you're driving through the

286
00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.000
rest of life, and that your ego is trying to

287
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protect you from.

288
00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:30.039
Wow, this is this is awesome. I mean, you're making

289
00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:32.279
me think of all kinds of things, you know, and

290
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:35.000
I'm sure everyone that's listening is doing the same thing,

291
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.200
thinking of the different things that have happened to them

292
00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:41.080
in their life. What do you think are a few

293
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:46.440
classic science that that somebody's many behaviors being driven by

294
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.960
a sacred wound that the thing that I mentioned to

295
00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:50.320
you probably.

296
00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:53.399
Was then yeah, well, let's see if we can diagnose

297
00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:55.600
your type, and then people can follow along and maybe

298
00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:57.360
figure out their type as well. They'll kind of give

299
00:15:57.399 --> 00:15:59.480
a little sense of it because that probably put have

300
00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:01.240
time to go through all the nine types. It's quite

301
00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:05.600
complicated because inside each type is an infinite amount of variety,

302
00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.799
and there aren't just nine types. There's subtypes and subtypes,

303
00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:10.720
and it goes down and down, so there's a lot

304
00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.200
of customization. If you will, But just to take a

305
00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:17.320
moment if you're listening and be to do the same

306
00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:21.360
is think about your child, think about your teenage years,

307
00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:24.919
your twenties, and even now, because as we age, we

308
00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.480
mature are type it's not a static system. We do

309
00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:31.840
mature as we age and hopefully grow into a healthier

310
00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:36.200
relationship to this stuff. But when you were younger and

311
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:40.440
even now, in your darkest emotional moments, which emotion do

312
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:42.960
you tend to feel more of? Do you tend to

313
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.759
feel more anger? Do you feel more grief slash shame?

314
00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:48.559
Or do you have more fear?

315
00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.120
Well, I'm thinking of things that happened to me in

316
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:55.360
my teenage years that anger.

317
00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:01.200
Anger. Okay, So if you're in the anger triad, then

318
00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:03.840
there's three ways again we can process that anger. I

319
00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:06.720
mean we can if you externalize it. So I'm gonna

320
00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:09.039
give you three, these three choices to think about and

321
00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:13.160
see which one, if any of them fit you. So

322
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:15.400
they have numbers. These are in the anger try to

323
00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.240
eight one in eight nine and one. And the numbers

324
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.319
don't mean anything. They're just placeholders. But so they're not

325
00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:27.000
they're not value, the signify any value. So Type A

326
00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.839
is the has their sacred wound of anger that they've externalized,

327
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.519
and they have a deep sense of injustice. But what

328
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:37.839
it does is their anger is sort of I use

329
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.799
car metaphors because I think it's helpful for people, and

330
00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:42.920
so think of I think of type as we call

331
00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:45.079
them the challenger, or I call them the hum v

332
00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.480
of egos, because they're always sort of pushing against the

333
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.400
boundaries and limitations of reality around them, because their greatest

334
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.000
fear is being harmed or controlled. So they're they're kind

335
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.079
of the take charge. They like to be at the

336
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:02.240
top of the food chain wherever they are, and they

337
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:09.039
have this need to kind of combat against others instinctively

338
00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.960
as a way of self protecting. So we say for

339
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.799
a Type eight, there are their ideas the best defense

340
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.160
is a good offense. So they're kind of the challenger.

341
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.160
I call them the hummer because they can kind of

342
00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:22.440
run over obstacles in front of them very easily. But

343
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.480
they tend not tend not to be very few efficient

344
00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:29.039
with their opinions. So, for example, Donald Trump is not

345
00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:31.519
to be political, but he's a classic example of a

346
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.559
go get it type, hard charging Type eight, and so

347
00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:36.880
is doctor Martin Luther King Junior, these are These are

348
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.279
both examples of eights. So that's one choice. See if

349
00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:43.759
that strikes you at all, and then we'll jump over

350
00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.200
to type one. And now type ones. They take that

351
00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:50.640
anger and they internalize it. They directed it themselves versus

352
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.680
out the world, and they what that does is it

353
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:57.279
creates their greatest fear of being bad or defective. So

354
00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:59.839
the strong inner critic in their head, it's always telling

355
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:01.839
them to be a good boy, be a good girl,

356
00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:06.160
do it right. And they they will often call them

357
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:09.480
the perfectionist or the improver. They can always see the

358
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:14.519
flaws in themselves and other things very easily. But I

359
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:16.880
call them the BMW of egos because they're sort of

360
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:19.680
precision engineered, but they take a fair bit of maintenance.

361
00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:25.039
So those are the two two choices. And then in

362
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:28.000
between the eight and the one for on this color

363
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:31.119
wheel is type nine, and we call them the peacemaker

364
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.720
because they have this internalized anger at themselves for not

365
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.440
really being able to meet their needs in childhood, but

366
00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:39.799
then this externalized anger at the world for not really

367
00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:43.400
meeting them either, which they're always tamping down. They're the

368
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:45.799
greatest fear for an eight. It's a little weird it's

369
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.000
say it's a loss of wholeness. It means they're afraid

370
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:51.160
that if their anger ever came out, it would erupt

371
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.440
and kind of blow them apart. So they kind of

372
00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:55.680
go on to get along, to be very easy going,

373
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:58.640
very peaceful, loving people, but they don't like conflict because

374
00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.160
they're afraid that it would cause their anger to erupt

375
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.119
and really, you know, could cause damage to themselves or others.

376
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.759
So that's what we call call the peacemaker. I call

377
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.839
the r V of egos because they kind of like

378
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.400
to chill out, you know, and hang out the campground

379
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:18.440
sometimes while the world's passing them by. Any of those

380
00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:20.240
strike you as possibilities, you know.

381
00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:26.000
I'm just thinking, yeah, I know that I've there's been

382
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:31.119
a lot of you know, not wanting conflict. Uh. In

383
00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.720
the being out of control the teenage years, there was

384
00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:38.519
some there was some things that happened around me being control,

385
00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:42.519
being not in control at all. Uh. It's had to

386
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:47.200
do with some young men and and just being really

387
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:52.400
really angry about what happened. And and then you know,

388
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:58.839
I think that that you know, it translates into uh

389
00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:03.039
a divorce. You know, after twenty five years of marriage

390
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:07.240
and feeling smushed into the ground and again no control

391
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:10.799
and just wanted to and you know, so you know,

392
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:13.160
when I think of myself, it's like I've always wanted,

393
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:15.079
you know, I want to be the best that I

394
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:19.440
can be. And and the thing and the thing that

395
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:22.079
I think about, like the stuff that the really upsetting

396
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:27.799
things that happened in my youth. I never told my parents,

397
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:32.640
never said anything. I was too ashamed and I was

398
00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:36.319
too mad, and I was angry and I was it

399
00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:40.440
was really scary as well, and I never said anything

400
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:45.480
to anybody, just and like you said, tamped it down down.

401
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.119
Yeah, so you probably don't get angry often, but when

402
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.680
you do, it's is it pretty pretty explosive when it happens.

403
00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:57.680
Yes, I'm pretty even keel, I'm pretty, you know, I'm pretty,

404
00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.559
you know, and and most of the time, but if

405
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:04.720
I but if something happens that I just I And

406
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:08.519
it doesn't happen very often, right, But but yeah, I

407
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:09.799
can see that so.

408
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.400
More in the nine. You think you're more in the

409
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:16.680
nine category that yeah, probably okay. So so then if

410
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.000
if if you're a nine, then what we say with

411
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:23.200
the so then we're added more complexity to an already

412
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:26.839
complex system. Uh, I've layered on top of the anagram

413
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:29.720
what I call the attachment theory of money, which is

414
00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:32.640
identical to the attachment theory of relationships, just applied to

415
00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:35.960
your finances. And so what it What it basically says

416
00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:39.680
is that there's two kind of core unhealthy ways that

417
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:43.079
we might relate to money. One where we're anxiously attached

418
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:45.680
to it. Right, that's kind of again the Ebenezer screwge

419
00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.759
or the the if you think of the show Succession

420
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:54.039
or Billions, people who's whose anxiety around money and need

421
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:56.279
for it is so high that it creates suffering for

422
00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.359
themselves or others. Or you can be avoidant around which

423
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.599
sounds like maybe you had some avoidance issues in your

424
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.400
youth where you're sort of unconsciously pushing away or self

425
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:08.440
sabotaging your financial life because you know, because of all

426
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.119
the negative emotions it brings up, you don't want to

427
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:13.519
deal with it. You tend to find ways to basically

428
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:16.519
not take responsibility for your financial life in some meaningful way.

429
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:20.599
And so we each type expresses those that anxiety or

430
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.599
avoidance in different ways, and it shows up in different

431
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.920
areas of our financial lives. So most of us aren't

432
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.079
just all one type of anxious or avoidant. It might

433
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.400
show up in different areas of our financial life. So

434
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.680
there's what I call the four pillars of finance, and

435
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:42.640
the four pillars of finance are going to be earning, saving, investing,

436
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.559
and giving. So earning, saving, investing, giving. So we might

437
00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:48.720
be like an anxious earner where we want to make

438
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:50.000
a lot of money, but then we might be an

439
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:52.720
avoidant saver because we spend it all on stuff. Or

440
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:55.400
we might be an anxious investor but then an avoidant giver.

441
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:58.680
So there's different We can mix and match these. But

442
00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:02.839
the the money monsters for tight nine, I call them

443
00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:06.759
the spud and the dud. So the spud is sort

444
00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:09.200
of the financial couch potato. They don't want to deal

445
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.400
with the conflict that the financial life is creating, so

446
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.920
they kind of like they treat their financial life kind

447
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:16.799
of like the treadmill in the corner that they never

448
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:19.160
get to. It's just it's there. But they sort of

449
00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:23.119
neglect their financial life in a kind of a just

450
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:28.599
through avoidance and ambivalents or sometimes with ninees. What you

451
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:31.559
see is what I call them the dud, and that's

452
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:34.720
the one who they really want. They care about their

453
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.359
financial future and they want to take appropriate action. But

454
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:41.640
because that fear of conflict or that anger is driving them,

455
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:44.400
they sometimes run around a flory of activity and they

456
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:47.039
do a lot, but nothing much ever seems to happen

457
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:50.039
because they're never getting to the conflict that they're avoiding

458
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:54.039
in the first place. So spuds and duds is one

459
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:56.640
are the types of the nine. And I don't know

460
00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.079
if either of those resonate with you.

461
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.680
No, But well, actually I'm gonna I'm gonna go off

462
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.119
in a little bit different direction because I'm noticing in

463
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:13.079
twenty five years of advising people, I've many times noticed

464
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:17.920
that a spender will marry uh savor right, the overspender

465
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:22.759
and the underspend spender, the they'll And it seems like

466
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:26.319
those are things that those that they will attract, those

467
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:29.160
those different personality attract, will attract each other.

468
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.839
Opposites do tend to attract. So did you see you

469
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:36.200
see that in relationships and you see that in financial

470
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:42.039
uh lives as well? For sure. Yeah, But so maybe

471
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:44.039
maybe we didn't get your type right. Maybe, so the

472
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.960
nine isn't isn't hitting with you. It's not resonating.

473
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.319
I don't know. I think I want to. I think

474
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:54.559
I think what you're wanting. I'm feeling like I want

475
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:59.599
to delve into this in great depth, you know, I

476
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.799
want to find some time to because you know, maybe

477
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.960
in some ways, but I'm also feeling like, well, you know,

478
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:07.400
I could be a little bit of this, a little

479
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:09.240
bit of that. And you already said that.

480
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:11.759
Right, And so it's a color wheel, right, so there's

481
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:13.599
like you could be a nine closer to a one

482
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:16.559
or one closer to a nine. So it sounds like

483
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:21.079
eight isn't your type. I don't think, but maybe said

484
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.920
there's something you said about being good that struck me

485
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:26.640
as meaningful, like you're just trying to do it right.

486
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.279
Yeah, And I mean, like the whole thing with financial advising.

487
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.240
I went into that and like I said, about twenty

488
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.480
five years ago and somebody had actually said you'd be

489
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:43.880
good at this, and I was, yeah, And you know,

490
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:47.640
the the nurturing and just working with people and trying

491
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.839
to help them, you know that Really that always resonated

492
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:52.200
with me.

493
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:56.960
Yeah. Okay, well, so if you if you want so,

494
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.559
those who are listening, you can go to my website.

495
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.640
There's a test you can take. So me an armchair

496
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.599
analysis of someone's ennyagram paper is very is fraught with difficulty.

497
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:06.640
It's it's not it's not easy to do. Sometimes you

498
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:12.640
nail it and sometimes you don't. And uh so I'm

499
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:15.759
I'm still sort can I ask you maybe a different question?

500
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:18.240
Let me just let me just take a different approach

501
00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:21.759
with this, Okay, So this goes back to we see

502
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:26.200
each type has a worst vice. So I'm gonna give

503
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.519
you three choices and see which one of these is. Okay,

504
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:34.240
So for type type one, the worst pace is actually anger,

505
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:36.920
right that it's that anger that when things aren't done

506
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:39.880
the right way, or things aren't going the people in

507
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:42.640
their lives aren't treating them right, or they tend to

508
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.920
have a problem with maybe a presentment can be an

509
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.240
issue for them, and anger kind of erupts more more

510
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.640
more forcefully. When is this since of frustration maybe is

511
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.000
a way of putting it. And then for nine that

512
00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:58.319
what they really struggle with is a cup of sloth

513
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:00.839
and inability to like take action or to.

514
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.319
To really I wouldn't I'm an action taker.

515
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:06.559
Okay, So then you're not a nine. So that that's

516
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:09.319
not that that's not the nine, and then with eights

517
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:12.480
we say their worst vice is lust, which doesn't necessarily

518
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:15.960
mean sexual lust. It's a lust for intensity like things. Really,

519
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:20.039
they're kind of they like and they like an intense

520
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:25.279
kind of response in life, in the universe and in general.

521
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.240
And see if either of any of those strike you

522
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.440
more more more, well.

523
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.039
Then think, yeah, we're going to have to table this.

524
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.480
I think, all right, we'll table it and we'll come

525
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.240
back to it. But it's a it's a curious question,

526
00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:40.759
so I'll keep I'll keep it in the back of

527
00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:43.359
my head here as we maybe maybe something will else

528
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:47.519
will strike us and we'll go deeper into it. Yeah.

529
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:50.920
Well, another question for you would be what would be

530
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:54.359
a simple way that listeners could start identifying their own

531
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:59.640
money wound, you know, because typically you're not going to

532
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:02.039
have a rapist in the room to help you with that.

533
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:04.400
Yeah. Well, I mean you've got a whole book on it,

534
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.480
So I would say check out ten mon Monster. It

535
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.599
takes some time to learn the system and to identify

536
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.839
your type, but there's some good tests out there online

537
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:14.880
you can check out and take them by an hour

538
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.440
to sit there and us and go into much more

539
00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:20.039
depth of questions that will pinpoint it.

540
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:25.000
What do you think about willpower? I mean, I feel

541
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:27.960
like most people are just you know, saying I'm going

542
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.000
to do this, I'm going to do this, and a

543
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.880
lot of times willpower based budgeting just fails for so

544
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.400
many people. It's just not just doesn't work.

545
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:40.000
Yeah, And so a lot of it just goes down

546
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.839
to what is the emotional wound that that procrastination is

547
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:48.160
trying to protect. What is it that those emotional what's

548
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:52.279
the emotional root cause behind it that makes you feel

549
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.480
so anxious when you're sitting down to do your budget

550
00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:57.079
or sitting down to pay your bills, and to really

551
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:00.519
identify those negative emotions and where they're coming from so

552
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:02.920
that you then have a way to move forward it

553
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:04.720
with a little more with a little more grace. And

554
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:07.400
then there's real So each type, there's in the book

555
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:10.079
like all practical steps that you can take for your type.

556
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.039
What are the actual exercises that you might do. They're

557
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.559
going to move you through through some of this anxiety

558
00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:18.519
that you're having more readily, and so you can confront

559
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.160
these fears and name them and then identify them and

560
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:23.000
see them when they're coming up, so you know, you know,

561
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.920
when you're acting out of guilt or fear or shame

562
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.480
or anger, whatever that is. And then some practical spiritual

563
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:32.400
tools for overcoming it. Mm hm.

564
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.559
Well, if somebody feels like they've tried everything right, what

565
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:43.039
would be a small shift you'd recommend that that would

566
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:47.279
really start taking them down that road to more clarity.

567
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:52.839
Well, I think first of all is naming where you're stuck, right,

568
00:30:53.880 --> 00:31:00.200
And then you know, do what's the smallest, simplest thing

569
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:04.039
you could do and are willing to do and can

570
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:06.559
do whatever that is, even if it's just opening up

571
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:09.400
a budgeting app for five minutes, it is just opening

572
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:11.759
up those bills that are stacking up on top of

573
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:16.359
your desk. What's the smallest simple step that you're willing

574
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:18.759
to take and could do right now, And do that

575
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.799
and start there. It's sort of the one percent. Do

576
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:25.559
one percent better today than you did yesterday. You don't

577
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:27.720
try to tackle all of it all at once. Gets

578
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:30.039
so overwhelming. We just get flooded with it. It's such

579
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.960
a huge monumental task, but it's that, you know, so

580
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:37.319
taking that first little baby step and trying to stack

581
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:39.880
that onto another step tomorrow so that you can actually

582
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:41.960
you know cover some mileage.

583
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:48.839
Right, Yes, I think the key word is willing, being willing. Right, So,

584
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:56.000
which one of the inteagram patterns tends to struggle most

585
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.759
with avoidance?

586
00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:01.880
Well, yeah, it's just the avoidance shows up in a

587
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:07.000
different So the avoidance pattern can show up in any type,

588
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.880
but it manifests uniquely for your type.

589
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:14.279
Okay, So I want to take a little side tour here.

590
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:17.359
How in the world did you get an audience with

591
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:18.200
the pope.

592
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:20.279
Accident.

593
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:23.839
We're going to take a little breather here and and

594
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:26.559
let people digest what you've been talking about. I want

595
00:32:26.599 --> 00:32:27.759
to hear about the Pope story.

596
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:29.480
Oh yeah, that was fun. So a good friend of mine,

597
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:32.279
his name is Richard Rohrer. He's a famous Franciscan priest

598
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:34.640
and a and a best selling author. And it was

599
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.119
his invitation actually, and I was just pushing the wheelchair.

600
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:39.519
So but I didn't get to go to that private

601
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:40.200
audience with him.

602
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:42.440
And it was it was he was in a wheelchair

603
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:43.920
and you were pushing.

604
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:46.359
I was pushing the wheelchair. I was I was. We

605
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:47.519
had to go all the way, he had to go

606
00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:49.039
all the way to Italy. Obviously, we had to go

607
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.720
to the Vatican. Yeah, and I was his traveling companion,

608
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:53.680
so that was but so it was an honor to

609
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:56.079
be asked to have that role. It was a real

610
00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:59.000
it was a real gift, and it was well honored

611
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.039
to fill that real It wasn't from my work that

612
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:02.720
I met the Pope, but I did get to meet

613
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.079
him and have that private private So what was.

614
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:08.039
Your feeling coming out of that meeting?

615
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:14.559
Aw Like I was just a little starstruck, a little

616
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.440
overwhelmed because you're in the we were in like the

617
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.400
papal audience. There's there's different levels of places where the

618
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.240
Pope meets people, and one sort of like I want

619
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:25.799
to call it the Throne Room. That's not the name

620
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:27.599
of it, but it's like it's like that. You know,

621
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.000
there's different diplomatic levels of where you can meet, and

622
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:34.279
there's like the Big Hall, and it's all you know,

623
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:36.440
when you go to the Vatican, you see the Vatican museums,

624
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:39.720
you're just seeing a small slice of what's what's there,

625
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:42.799
and I mean the whole Vatican is like the Vatican Museum,

626
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:45.359
and so you're seeing artwork that nobody else really gets

627
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.000
to see very very often. And you know, the old

628
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.640
paple guards are there. So I was just struck by

629
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.680
his the pope, this is Pope Francis, by his kindness,

630
00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:59.319
by his humility. I was struck by his warmth and

631
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:03.359
just how gracious he was the entire time. So it

632
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:06.559
was a really special, spectacular, spectacular experience.

633
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:07.720
Wonderful memory.

634
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:08.719
Mm hmm.

635
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:14.440
Okay, So let's switch gears again. You've mentioned money monsters.

636
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:21.079
Why don't you tell everyone what are they? How do

637
00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:26.119
they differ from normal financial mistakes? Well, again, monster sounds

638
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:27.800
like something big.

639
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.760
It is It's that it's that deep rooted psychological pattern

640
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:34.639
that's holding you back in some area of your financial life.

641
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:37.119
It's that emotional wound. It's going back to that sacred

642
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.679
womb we talked about earlier. It's a deep, unconscious fear

643
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:45.880
that you have that's driving you. And it was it

644
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:48.599
was helpful in your childhood to protect you, but now

645
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:50.280
it's kind of driving your life in the ditches in

646
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:53.639
some very critical ways. And so understanding what that what

647
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:57.480
that root fear is, that's what is that when all

648
00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:00.719
these negative emotions around money come up, What's what's behind

649
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:03.400
what's the fear behind that fear? Essentially, what's that deep

650
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:06.440
deep fear that it's it's triggering, and how do you

651
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:10.039
address it in a healthy way so you can alleviate

652
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:15.000
it through compassion and self compassion. And there's again real

653
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:18.960
tricks for that, but it's knowing what that, naming it,

654
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:21.239
and then being able to move forward through it with

655
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:22.719
a little bit more grace and dignity.

656
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:27.440
You know, I'm going to tell you one other thing.

657
00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:30.159
As you're sitting here talking, I'm thinking, you know, thinking

658
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:35.320
about me. When I was getting ready to I've written

659
00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:40.000
a couple of books like you, And there was one

660
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:45.480
point where I was like, well, I actually had another

661
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:48.039
financial advisor, this one from Los Angeles. I was at

662
00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:50.079
a luncheon and he says, no one's ever going to

663
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:54.079
listen to you. You're an older, white female, and I went,

664
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:58.920
you know, you know, I was like what. And so

665
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:01.840
actually I told this story because it was it was like,

666
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:04.559
I can't believe that somebody actually said that to me.

667
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:09.360
But this other, this other very wise woman said well

668
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:14.280
he's saying no, you can't, but why not you? And

669
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:17.199
then the same thing when I I had been contemplating

670
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:20.239
doing a podcast for a while and that I'm not

671
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:24.599
good enough, I'm not worthy all that sort of thing

672
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:30.920
came up and I thought back to the the that

673
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:34.679
initial stuff around around writing books. It was like, well

674
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:36.599
why not me? I think I have a lot that

675
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:40.679
I can share, yes, the whole, And so I think

676
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:47.880
that money monsters one one that one that I think

677
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:50.880
that came up for me after the divorce was not

678
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:57.079
being worthy to have any money, and and so that

679
00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:02.079
you know, probably you know what, I think one of

680
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:05.119
the reasons why I've been successful in doing financial advising

681
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:09.360
is because I've been able to hear a lot of

682
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:13.280
the things that I've gone through and have empathy right

683
00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:19.719
for people. Yeah, so what if you were going to

684
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:22.039
name the top three money monsters, what would you say

685
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:22.480
they might be?

686
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:27.320
Well, again, there isn't a top There isn't a top

687
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:31.800
three because there's two. Again, there's two for each Enneagram type,

688
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:33.559
and so it just depends on what your type is.

689
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:37.480
So basically there's two. You you probably have two that

690
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:40.880
you're you're you're likely to struggle with most. And you'd

691
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:43.119
also have a healthy relationship with money. So you know,

692
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:43.960
it doesn't mean.

693
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:46.840
Well, I feel like I have a very healthy relationship

694
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:47.519
with money now.

695
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:52.840
Yeah, But before it was rooted in not feeling worthy

696
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:59.400
of having money? Yeah, I'm not worthy of it? And

697
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:01.920
where did that come from? Where do you think that

698
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.719
less sense of not being worthy comes from? And does

699
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:08.199
it show up in other parts of your life?

700
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:09.800
Not really?

701
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:12.280
No, I don't think so.

702
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:16.519
I don't know. I don't know. Boy, didn't expect to

703
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:19.159
be digging into my psyche today.

704
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:21.960
Well, because you said it was. Well, it sounds like

705
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.039
there's a pattern. Though, you didn't feel worthy to start

706
00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:24.719
a podcast?

707
00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:25.480
Yeah?

708
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:28.320
Do you feel worthy you have money? Was there other

709
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:30.800
places where that sense of unworthiness has showed up in

710
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:31.239
your life?

711
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:35.679
I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

712
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.199
How about in school? Did you feel worthy of did

713
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:38.960
you do you feel?

714
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:40.559
No? I mean I did.

715
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:41.000
I was.

716
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:46.360
I was a good student, came out of college magnecum loud.

717
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.599
I mean I worked hard. I get the education that

718
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.840
I had, and I've got professional designations, worked hard for those.

719
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:56.280
So I don't know. Maybe it's a maybe part of

720
00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:57.679
it is just proving myself.

721
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.199
Yeah, and if you always out the need to prove yourself,

722
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:11.559
maybe Okay, do you all right? So? Yeah, I'm I'm

723
00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:14.719
I'm sort of shifting my again. I'm stuck on my

724
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:18.480
armchair diagnosis here a little bit. Yeah, I know, because

725
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.559
it's so curious because there's also there's also any counter type.

726
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.320
So for each Enneagram type, there's also a counter type.

727
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:27.400
Those are very hard to pin down. But if that

728
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.440
sense of worthiness was was a thread, I mean, do

729
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:32.639
you feel that in relationships you talk about your divorce,

730
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:35.880
do you feel worthy? Do you feel worthy of love?

731
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:43.880
Oh? Yeah, absolutely feel worthy of love? Yeah yeah, those Wow,

732
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:47.360
you get I can see where this gets really really

733
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:51.800
deep and really insightful. I think I think you almost

734
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:54.559
need to go away to a cabin in the woods

735
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:56.440
somewhere for the weekend to think about it.

736
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:58.960
Yeah, And when you find your type, you kind of

737
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:00.519
know it because it makes it and it's kind of

738
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:02.960
sitting on a cactus for the first time. It's not

739
00:40:03.159 --> 00:40:06.920
it's usually a very uncomfortable experience when people finally do

740
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:09.199
land on their type, because it's like, oh my gosh,

741
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:12.239
now I see all the patterns. Like it's like someone

742
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:14.840
just handed you the script of your life and you

743
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:19.239
see why you've made some of the mistakes you've made,

744
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.000
and it's a it's a bit it's a bit cringe

745
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:23.000
worthy sometimes.

746
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:27.559
Well, the interesting thing about you know, what I've come

747
00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:31.920
to with being an advisor is the whole thing around

748
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:36.440
purpose and having a purpose for money, and I can

749
00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:43.039
see where this can be really helpful to help you identify. Yeah,

750
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:47.480
just you know your your four pillars earning and saving

751
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:52.199
and investing in giving. I can see where those can

752
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:54.960
get distorted if you have some things that you haven't worked.

753
00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:01.239
Through, right, right. Yeah, So there's eighteen money monsters I've identified,

754
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.719
because there's obviously there's nine types to two freeach, so

755
00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:07.199
we got eighteen to play with. And again, the intercram

756
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:09.960
is a very complicated system, so there's there's overlap between

757
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.199
types and in all kinds of cool ways that we

758
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:15.519
go into. But I think that was the real insight

759
00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:18.440
in the monastery. For me. It was just seeing you know,

760
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:21.880
people saying about poverty, thinking it's going to bring them

761
00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:24.880
to a level of spiritual enlightenment, when in fact it

762
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:27.719
was a kind of ego driven renunciation of money. Like

763
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:30.480
there was this one monk I call him Brother Pious,

764
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:34.800
and he refused to touch money for cash or credit

765
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:36.280
cards for any reason. He thought it was going to

766
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:39.400
pollute the soul. And I was like, okay, well he

767
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:42.039
thought that was going to propel him forward spiritually, and

768
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.079
what it actually did was give him this sort of

769
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.440
unassailable perch to kind of look down at everybody else

770
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:49.360
and kind of create a holier than now attitude at times.

771
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:52.079
And it's like, well, wait a minute, this isn't diminishing

772
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.000
your ego. This is actually strengthening your ego. And so

773
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:59.239
to realize that these money monsters can really take hold

774
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:04.199
in ways that are subtle and hard hard to identify

775
00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:06.239
if someone to point them out to you, because if

776
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:09.440
you know, if his not touching money was somehow made

777
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:12.239
his hands kept his hands clean, it meant the rest

778
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:14.119
of it had the rest of it had the rest

779
00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:15.519
of us had a touch of money a lot more

780
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:18.719
often to make that happen, which was hardly loving her

781
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:20.840
kind if his if his hypothesis was.

782
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:29.079
Correct, Right, wow, super cool. You know the I'm I'm

783
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:33.280
just gonna I'm just thinking of all the different personalities

784
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:39.199
that I've worked with over the years, and most of

785
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:41.679
the time there's something that people don't want to hear.

786
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:47.000
And like, now you're working with high achievers and wealthy clients,

787
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.400
what would you say, and we're writing out of time too,

788
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.800
what's one counter what's the truth that you feel about

789
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:55.880
money that listeners need to hear.

790
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:58.480
That money is not the root of all evil. Money

791
00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:01.199
is pretty much the root of everything at any And

792
00:43:01.239 --> 00:43:04.320
it's a tool. Tool, it's a it's a hammer. You

793
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:06.599
can build something beautiful and you can whack yourself on

794
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:09.960
the thumb. So anything that's powerful is going to be dangerous.

795
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:13.320
But it's also like, you know, you can use nuclear

796
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:17.159
power to build, to build a nuclear actor and light

797
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:18.760
up a whole city, or you can use it to

798
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:21.280
blow up a city, take a pick. But that doesn't

799
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.880
mean we should be afraid of energy, you know. It's

800
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:26.280
just it's a really powerful form of energy for getting

801
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:29.000
stuff done in the world. So I think trying to

802
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:32.000
help people, I want to empower people to have more

803
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:34.000
of it so that they can live a life that

804
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:37.239
makes their soul sing and live their highest purpose and

805
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:39.480
really be a tool for love and service to the world.

806
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:43.039
I think that's a great way to end because we

807
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:47.440
are time And you know, just one thought, you know

808
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:51.360
for me having you know, struggled through a lot of

809
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:54.480
this and now you know, on the other end, things

810
00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:58.440
are great and getting to serve this mission in Hawaii,

811
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:01.760
I'm getting I'm there's a whole lot that you get

812
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:05.320
out of being of service to other people. I've I've

813
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:07.920
just noticed that and just working with the people here

814
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:12.239
and everything has just been great. Well, what would to

815
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:16.000
end Let's say that was what you just said was

816
00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:20.639
just a great way to end the podcast. We have

817
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:24.480
got it. We're out of time. But I hope that

818
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:28.280
this has given people a chance to really think about

819
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:32.079
asking some good questions about why they're doing what they're

820
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:37.360
doing right now. Wouldn't you say, look at how you're

821
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:42.000
doing things? And information about Doug and his process will

822
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:46.400
be on the information on my website so that you know,

823
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:49.079
so you can go look him up and take a

824
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:51.119
look at this, because I think it's going to do

825
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:51.880
nothing but good.

826
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.239
Thank you. Yeah. So, I encourage people to check the

827
00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:57.199
book out, Taming your Money Monster Nine Paths to Money

828
00:44:57.199 --> 00:44:59.679
Mastery with the enneagram. You can find it booksellers everywhere

829
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:02.119
of course Amazon. If anyone likes it a post a review,

830
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:04.480
that'd be great. And if anyone likes some financial coaching

831
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:06.159
or it needs some help with their finances, reach out

832
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.599
to me on my website douglam dot com.

833
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:12.519
Sounds great, well, thank you so much. For joining us

834
00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:14.960
today and thanks for being here on the Ask Good

835
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:16.519
Questions podcast.

836
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:18.119
And you ask great question you ask great questions.

837
00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:19.000
Thank you.

838
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:25.639
Today's episode is over, but we need to ask good

839
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:29.079
Questions again, didn't We don't miss out as we broadcast

840
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:33.360
live every Wednesday, six pm Eastern Time on W four

841
00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:38.239
CY Radio at w fourcy dot com. Joined Nina Bellmerson

842
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:43.079
next week for more conversations with experts on finances, retirement,

843
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:47.719
behavioral finance issues, health and wellness, and more. Until then,

844
00:45:48.199 --> 00:45:51.079
remember to ask good questions.